New "hand check" rules enforcement

Not really sure where to put this, but parents area seemed ok. Anybody seeing enforcement of the new hand check rules. We had a crew the other day and it was just brutal. The kids aren't allowed to play.

But here is a questions. With the new enforcement, the advantage seems to go to the offense (kind of like the NFL). So do you think it is an advantage to play your more offensive orientated players or defensive (ie; quicker) guys?

From my perspective, the rule doesn't bother me. I look at it as a positive thing. Since we put so much emphasize on our defense, defensive footwork, agility, and our DISCIPLINE... we'll do a better job than other teams. We don't teach kids to hand check so I don't think it will affect us.

We emphasis digging at the ball (flipping up), mirroring the ball, hands off (moving feet), sealing seams on perimeter, early help/quick recovery, etc.

I don't think the advantage goes to offense or defense. I think the advantage goes to the most disciplined teams. JMO.

We also want kids to be able to adjust. So the brutal hand checking is a great opportunity to teach basketball and life lessons. How do you handle adversity? How do you react to factors you can't control? Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. Just a thought. :)

More good thoughts Jeff..... we didin't teach hand checking either.... but in the past few years, you would have thought the defense was like the NFL. Its time they made kids play basketball and stop holding, pushing etc.

JeffHaefner wrote:From my perspective, the rule doesn't bother me. I look at it as a positive thing. Since we put so much emphasize on our defense, defensive footwork, agility, and our DISCIPLINE... we'll do a better job than other teams. We don't teach kids to hand check so I don't think it will affect us.

We emphasis digging at the ball (flipping up), mirroring the ball, hands off (moving feet), sealing seams on perimeter, early help/quick recovery, etc.

These are all great thoughts Jeff. I agree with the rule as long as its not a touch call.... last thing I want to see is a game where its a trip to the free throw line. What really bothered me was the touch calls out front and we were getting brutalized underneath.... they need to find a happy medium.

I understand that they are going to enforce the coaching box more? I would have been in a lot of trouble. The refs told me that as long as I was coaching my team, they wouldn't have a problem with it. Thank God, I would have needed a straight jacket and bungee cord. MANY years ago when I was still the sophomore coach, the head coach introduced me to the AD of this one school after the varsity game. This guy was funny, he said, oh, and all this time I thought he was on our staff for the amount of time he spent down by our bench LOL

I got myelf under control, especially once I was the varsity coach..... but I still had a big coaches box.

The one thing that bothers me is some rule they decide to put in for whatever reason...... like not being able to put your foot on the end line to stop a player from beating you there....... like as a defender I am going to look at where my feet are as I am trying to defend someone.

Just had to throw that out. The refs have enough to do without some of the goofy rules they want to implement.... have you ever seen the rule book? You need a PHD to know every rule. JMO

The hand checking wasn't brutal. The foul call were. They are calling every touch. Every contact. Last nights local girls HS varsity game had 50 foul shots. I think it takes away from the game.

I also think from my own feeble analysis that the advantage goes to the offensive guys. With more trips to the line, you'll want better free throw shooters. It also should be easier to get shots off. I think even the quickest defenders are subject to getting beat with the rules.

I think they are trying to clean the game up.... and maybe going overboard? The HS game is getting out of control..... I mean physical - its time to clean it up and that starts with the coaches. I've heard coaches say, we are going to play physical, the refs wont call all the fouls and we will run 10-11 guys at them.

Hopefully they will get this worked out early in the season and then we can watch basketball again.


I like watching HS games but NOT if its going to turn into a FT contest.

Yea if they called every "contact" that would suck! I have no problem them calling foul when our on ball defenders put a hand on. We can adjust to that. But if they call every incidental contact then that's not really basketball. The advantage goes to the team with the most depth and yea the best free throw shooters.

Ok. So we had a couple of games today. Middle school/Jr. High. We play 4 6 min quarters = 24 min. The B game lasted an hour and 10 min. It was ridiculous. They called every little touch foul. Many which had no impact on the play. After about an hour I yelled pretty loud to "let the play, I wanted to go home tonight." I think they got the message. Bottom line, best free throw shooting team will win.

Frankly I liked it when they called it NO HARM . NO FOUL ..... Or as the refs put it.... Advantage / Disadvantage.

Like I said before, some coaches are taking advantage of the refs not calling every foul.... so they teach being physical or more like going over the line towards being dirty.

So now, its up the the coaches to teach the game the right way... there is going to be contact, you cant get around that, just keep the game clean.

There are Youth league football coaches that teach their kids to lead with their heads and to go for the other teams heads..... those guy should be run out of the game... let them go lay bricks or something.... ticks me off just thinking about it. I coached football for a long time also.... and we NEVER taught to go for another players head or to SPEAR..... NOT in 25 years of coaching football.

Hand checking is something that should receive warnings first and then be called, imo. Similar to 3 seconds or big guys battling for position in the paint. "Watch the hands" "Get out of the lane" "Take it easy in the paint" The officials that do this first and then call it, no problem. I'm more in the camp of how frequent is it happening and did it create an advantage/disadvantage.

We teach our kids to beat their player to the spot and establish legal guarding position. Easier said than done, but I'd rather have them using less hands and more feet/body.

Sounds like you had a few whistle games which can get out of control. Most good officials I've come across pick their poison in games based on the skill level of the teams.

Rob -

I like the idea of giving a warning.... there is no need to blow the whistle every time down the floor. Not sure if this is true or not.... but they are going to have supervisors watching games and IF the refs dont make those calls there will be some discipline handed out to them? Anyone else here that?

I'm glad its you guys and not me right now.

Coach Sar wrote:Rob -

I like the idea of giving a warning.... there is no need to blow the whistle every time down the floor. Not sure if this is true or not.... but they are going to have supervisors watching games and IF the refs dont make those calls there will be some discipline handed out to them? Anyone else here that?

I'm glad its you guys and not me right now.

Yes. That is what I herd from a friend who spoke with an official he knows.

The problem is that they call it without any discretion. For example, on an inbound during a press. Kid gets the ball and passes and breaks the press. But during the pass he is "touch fouled." So the call the foul and take away the easy layup.

They will ruin the game IF they make the touch calls.... there is going to be some incidental contact.... I wonder who comes up with all these ideas??
Why don't they talk to the coaches - starting with the college coaches and work their way down to the youth leagues.... and then adjust how you call the game.

IF they blew the whistle in youth games everytime there was a violation... the game would never end.

golfman -

If you don't mind me asking, are you in a smaller city or bigger one? Reason I ask is, I'm wondering if you're dealing with one set of officials who rotate through all the games? Because I'm in a bigger city, it might be 10 games before I see the same officials again on my court. It sounds like you're seeing this at all levels of play (middle school - hs)? If so, that can be a drag and the coaches will have to adjust.

Are you referring to this? I grabbed it from the POE for 2013-2014 on NFHS:
Guidelines to Enforce Illegal Contact - When contact occurs that affects the rhythm, speed, quickness and balance of the player, illegal contact has occurred. When illegal contact occurs, fouls must be called. Officials must not refrain from calling these type of actions that create an advantage for the opponent. Illegal contact must be called regardless of time and score.

Where I live, at the beginning of every season, the "points of emphasis" are discussed with the coaches and we're told that officials will be looking for X, Y or Z this season. Eventually (at least from my perspective), the games appear to be called based on the official's bent that game. Some call it tight, some not so much, others get hung up on hand checking, most of the ones I deal with let them play unless there's an advantage/disadvantage.

I'm in a large suburban area. I haven't seen the same set a refs yet.

But your POE sounds about right. This is all being driven by the top dogs at the HS associations. The problem is that it is not working,especially at the lower levels. It has become too ticky tacky.