Thanks Jeff. I totally agree with limiting team size. I had 8 last year (played 5) and that was perfect. 10 this year so they only get to play ½ the game. Oh well.

OK - I’m gaining some positive points to present not allowing pressing, zone defenses and how this allows more focus on skill development and more emphasis on fun instead of winning. Any other ideas on the benefits for the progression above and going away from our current system? I guess this would help.
Our current league progression
3rd Grade
8’ goals
27.5” balls
½ court and there is no backcourt
Cannot extend the defense beyond the 3 point arc
full court press in last 2 minutes
Cannot “play defense” when lead is 20 or greater
Everyone plays at least ½ (depends on team size)
try to limit 10 kids per team

4th Grade
9’ goals
28.5” balls
½ court
Cannot extend the defense beyond ½ court and there is no backcourt
full court press in last 2 minutes
Cannot “play defense” when lead is 20 or greater
Everyone plays at least ½ (depends on team size)
try to limit 10 kids per team

5th Grade
10’ goals
30” balls
full court and back court is called
Play any defense at all times except with a 20 point or more lead.
Everyone plays at least ½ (depends on team size)
try to limit 10 kids per team
6th – 12th is pretty much the same as 5th except they allow for subs whenever you want and each player is only required to play 1 quarter.

Rules Link: http://cibl.org/rulesandregs1011.cfm

Finally, what might be the downside to my proposed league progression? I was thinking I might hear, “They will face zone and pressure when they get older?” or “Aren’t we better to prepare them for “real” basketball sooner than later?” Another comment might be, “you still develop skills playing zone, right?” Again, I’m just trying to cover everything that might come up. There is always opposition no matter what so I will need to counter that.
Thanks again.

Finally, what might be the downside to my proposed league progression? I was thinking I might hear, “They will face zone and pressure when they get older?” or “Aren’t we better to prepare them for “real” basketball sooner than later?” Another comment might be, “you still develop skills playing zone, right?” Again, I’m just trying to cover everything that might come up. There is always opposition no matter what so I will need to counter that.

As for this........ YES, they will face zones and pressure when they get older.... and IF ALL you are interested in is the Ws... go ahead and press and trap all over because kids at this age cant handle that type of game. BUT, that is NOT teaching them how to play... its teaching them how to WIN and that shouldn't be the GOAL of your program.
Can 3rd and 4th graders shoot very well.... NO they cant... so what are they learning when the are facing zones? Most 5th graders are NOT good shooters either ..... I'm glad that you are willing to take up this cause and I hope they don't throw that out at you.
The goals of your program should be - from level to level - be able to play at the NEXT level.... and ultimately play high school varsity ball. Who cares if you go 30-0 at the 3rd grade level (or any lower level) IF they cant play once they get to high school. OK, sorry for the rant - GOOD LUCK.
By the way, the rant wasn't meant for you.... its for the league.

Coach Sar, I used to coach 5th & 6th grade teams. The league allowed for pressing and zones. Funny thing is that I organized the league, but I forgot to include those rules.

We played all man to man. It was frustrating for the kids, because they would get pressed and zoned some games and if they were losing, I still wouldn't let them press.

However, I told them that I would let them press (only man to man) for the last two minutes of the game IF WE WERE LOSING.

I don't coach that age level anymore, just a 7th grade team and a varsity team.

Maybe no pressing would be the best. My worry would be the coaches who want to press. Having the compromise where they could press the last 4 minutes might make it easier for the new rules to pass.

The good ole "Win - Win" eh Joe? I guess that half the pie is better than none.

Someone needs to coach those coaches as to what is best for the kids and forget the Ws. That took me some time to understand also.

First of all, zone defense is for $%^&%*s. You need the fundamentals of M2M to play zone anyway. Make sure you're board realizes that.

Second, pressing and fast breaks should be allowed in limited circumstances at the 5yo+ level. Change the circumstances as the kids get older. In our league we can fast break all game and can press in the last 2 min. I think there are score limits as well.

Truthfully, I think you might want to look more at your ball, hoop, and court sizes. I think the full size ball is too large. And the 10 foot hoop is too larger. Use a smaller ball and lower hoop. I would use jr. balls and 9 to 9.5 ft. hoops. Move the free throw line up a foot or 2. This will go a long way to making the game better for the kids.

As for wining, I just don't think you can or should take that aspect out of the game. To tell the kids that wining doesn't matter or is not important is nonsense. It does matter to the kids. They go out and practice to get better. They put their heart and soul into it. The kids should be playing to win. Why else would they be out there?

Now the "ADULTS" should be about development and need to keep the winning in perspective. First, they need to set up a league which allows each team a fair chance to win. Get the teams as even as possible. Set the rules up regarding defenses, presses, fast breaks, etc. so as not to take advantage of less skilled kids. Keep the teams small -- 8 kids -- so they all get a good amount of playing time. Work with the volunteer coaches to train them how/what to do. Etc. Good luck.

Facing zones when older...

Yes. That is true. However, players need to build a foundation of fundamentals first. There needs to be a logical progression. In school we do this. In baseball we do this. In soccer we do this.

In school, just because a kid has to take a pre-calculus class in high school doesn't mean that we have them starting learning calculus the first day of school. We teach them addition, subtraction, etc and progress from there. Well, zones and pressing is an advanced tactic for basketball, so it should be left for the advanced levels. In order to get good at beating these tactics, players need a strong foundation first and by having coaches prepare to play against zones and practices zones wastes valuable time that they could be spending on preparing these kids for junior high and high school basketball.

In baseball, we don't let kids take leads off of first base, we don't have them throw from major league mounds because it's not a proper progression.

In soccer, they start out with 3v3 - no goalie and eventually progress to 11v11.

Developing skills against zones...

Yes, but you need to develop these skills when the kids are ready. Developmentally, kids still have problems understanding spacing relationships. Don Kelbick once said they have trouble remembering tying their shoes and now expect them to beat a zone.

They can hardly pass, dribble, and shoot. It's hard enough to teach them to do these things without a defense. Adding a man to man defense makes it more difficult, not adding a zone defense just turns it into garbage basketball that nobody is reaping benefits from. Kids chucking up shots (probably make 1 out of 10) and score 85% of their points off of offensive rebounds.

Sorry... now adding a zone turns into garbage basketball...

Sorry Goilfman..... pressing at this age will get you a lot of Ws but it wont help teach the kids how to play the game. IF you want Ws, press all over the court and turn the game in to garbage as Joe said. Kids at that age cant handle it... they can hardly pass and catch the ball let alone beat a trap.
You are right on regarding the fundamentals and yes, the kids will play to win, thats fine... but lets make the game right for their age group. They will keep score even if there is no scoreboard.... but its what the coaches focus on that makes the difference

Joe has made some great points here.

Good stuff. Please help me understand some points on why zones are advanced vs MtoM. Once I establish that and get buy in there, I expect them to support starting with the basics first as that is pretty standard and easy to understand. I guess, the league has done that to some extent if you go back to our current progression…..it is just a bit too fast.

Yes, 10’ goals and full sized ball and court are way too much for all but a few of our 10 year olds.
Thanks again for all the input.

I think what Golfman was trying to get across was that in order to play a GOOD ZONE.... you need to have good m2m fundamentals - or you won't understand how to defend someone.

Learning the m2m fundamentals takes time and the younger they are the more difficult it is to comprehend...... Stick to your guns... and like I said, invite them to come to this site and see what the coaches have to say - let them ask all the questions and propose any scenario they want.