Why Every Coach & Parent Needs To Copy Frank Kaminsky's Dad

Joe , long time subscriber hear . My question is , I got a team of 11 3rd graders (soon to be 4th) . I want to move up next year to higher competition and I got a few that might not be ready . Is it too early to be letting kids go ? Im just not sure thay would have a good basketball experience at the next level . Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
joe clayton

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Barrett says: 3/12/2015 at 11:29:52 AM Joe, imo I would think to hold off on cutting players between 3rd and 4th grade. Because kids are still really developing and someone who may not be as coordinated as a 3rd grader could potentially develop some ability by 4th or 5th grade. I think it's around 7th-8th grade when you start to make decisions about who should be cut. Prior to that it really should all be about development and fun. 7th and 8th grade (right before the leap to high school) is when more competitive play should begin. -B Like     login   register

Paul says: 3/12/2015 at 11:55:16 AM I run a travel type program. Joe move the kids up and make two teams. The player who are ready to move take and let the other kids stay where they are. Bring the bench player on the team From team that moves up to the second team. They now turn into the go to players for that team. That would let everyone play to their own levels. It also gives more kids a chance to make second team. You may a couple of new players who were afraid to tryout for the team. Like   1 reply   login   register Melissa says: 3/12/2015 at 12:37:58 PM I was one of the coaches this season and we had 30 boys come out for basketball - we formed 3 teams - mostly equal talent. We played in several tournaments that way. Then they took the top 10 players and formed an "A" team and then which ever boys wanted to keep playing we formed 2 "B" teams. We had all but 2 come back for the "B" teams. That way the "A" kids could play at a harder level in more tournaments. We had the rest practice for a few weeks and then we found another "B" tournament they played in. We saw huge improves in those kids. They were given the chance to step up and take on new and different roles on the team. They worked super hard for us and improved on their confidence!! It was important to us to keep them playing and learning skills. I can see some of those players taking spots next year on the "A" team if they keep up the good work. Some kids just want to play and have fun and are fine being on the "B" team as well. :) I feel we have a great program and super glad I am apart of it. Like     login   register

Joe Haefner says: 3/12/2015 at 2:51:04 PM I can see that you want your more-skilled players to be challenged, so they can keep progressing. And you don't want your less-skilled players to become frustrated and have a bad experience. I think this is a legit concern. Here is what I have done that works for me. It may or may not work for you because every situation is different. I've used this approach up to about the 7th grade level on teams that were considered "advanced" or "competitive". Ahead of time, I let the parents know that I am going to mix up playing time in games. Some games you may not play more than 30% of the game. Some games you might play 70% of the game. However, things will even out over the season and eveybody will get equal playing time. I mix up the levels of the tournaments. I will pick some advanced tournaments where it really challenges my better players. However, I may limit some playing time for certain players... no less than 30% of the game, so they don't experience too much failure to the point where it becomes a detriment. Then I'll pick some tournaments where I can get my less-skilled players more playing time and have a positive experience with the right level of competition. I still want these players to be challenged. We don't like cake-walks. You'll even find that in some tournaments, you will get a mix of teams that allows you to incorporate this strategy within the tournament. I've also had the fortunate experience of having some of these less-skilled kids develop into some of the better players on the team over a one to two year span. Another option is to add a few kids and split the kids up into different teams like another commenter said. Something else I'm sure you're aware of but I wanted to reiterate... kids develop at different rates. Just this year, I've seen a lot of late-bloomer stories just with kids I have worked with. One kid was an average high school player as a freshmen, worked his tail off, and made a local "shoe-deal" club team. Another got cut from the 6th team as a 7th grader, worked his tail off, and is starting as a freshmen at a high school with 1000+ kids. I know a kid who got cut from a club team as a freshmen in high school, only to be the same team's best player his junior year, and earn a scholarship at a Pac-12 school and is potential NBA draft pick. One thing I know for certain... it's very difficult to project who is going to be good and who isn't. There are just too many uncontrollable factors. I wish I had a perfect solution for you, but unfortunately, I don't. One thing I've learned is you can never please everybody. It's impossible. Do what you think is best. If you decide to limit your players on the team, offer to let the other players practice with the team and help them find a good team to play for. Thanks for posting that question, because many others have the same concerns! Like     login   register

Joe Haefner says: 3/12/2015 at 2:52:54 PM Also, I will add that I emphasize that playing time is earned with hard work, listening, attitude, and respect to others. If you're a really good player and you don't follow the character traits we preach, they'll get less playing time than what might be considered a "weaker" player. Like     login   register

Why on earth would you be cutting kids in the 3rd grade? This to me is exactly what is wrong with youth basketball. At this age it is impossible to project what a kid will develop in to. The bad basketball experience you speak of would be to cut them. Teach them the fundamentals and let them have some fun.

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Every team we played this season we won by 30 +. My only option to to move to another league where the level of play is much higher. Most of the kids are ready but I think a few would benefit by staying in our previous league. Also I have 11 players therefore half the kids are sitting half the time

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Joe, you are exactly what is wrong with youth sports. I guarantee your kid plays on the team and you are getting caught up in it. Cutting kids in 3rd grade. Get a life.

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Out of respect for this website I wouldn't respond to that last comment . Just know that my only concern is the kids having a positive basketball experience.

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Todd says: 3/12/2015 at 12:39:19 PM I will just share that my daughter was on a soccer team that "moved up" because they were wiping kids off the map as well. She was not included in the move up even though she was probably in the top 1/3rd of players in the league - just not on that team. She has never touched a soccer ball since. Completely walked away from the sport because of what happened. This is very difficult stuff that impacts kids for a lifetime. Like     login   register

Yes paul I have definitely considerd two teams in just not sure I could run 4 practices a week pluse my wife would probably kill me ...ha ha

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I think those that are saying Joe clayton is what is wrong with sports are not getting his point. I have a basketball team of 4th graders with varying skill levels - we have some really good players and some who are still learning the game. We didn't know it at the time when we registered the team, but the league is quite competitive.
Everyone gets equal playing time. But for those who are not that good, the experience is clearly not a positive one. We have kids upset because they haven't scored a basket all season, and we've got other kids who can barely dribble who go out of their way to avoid getting the ball, even though we try to get everyone to bring the ball up. Just because the kids are out there running around and are part of a team doesn't mean they are getting any value out of it.

Knowing what I know now, I would definitely have had two teams playing in two different leagues. I probably wouldn't be able to run two teams, but would have had another parent run one of the teams.

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Folks, let's try to keep the comments positive here. This is not a place for attacking and ridiculing others.

This is a family of coaches and parents trying to help each other be a positive influence on youth athletics.

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Joe, unless there is a roster limit, I would keep all 11 players. You have a first string, a second string, and a "6th man" who maybe doesn't get as much playing time as the first string, but more than the second string. This player could also be a defensive specialist ( I've coached several of these players; they may not have the ball handling or shooting skills of a starter, but they have the athleticism and aggressiveness to shutdown an opposing team's scorer.) The additional benefit of having this many players is when a starter is unavailable for a game, you have plenty of backup players to step in to keep your reamining starters fresh. I wish you the best of luck in moving up. I made the same move several years ago and have never regretted it.

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I coach 8 y.o. Boys. I have 9 on my team. I have 5 kids with ability and interest in training and improving. I have 2 kids interested but no concentration & very little ability and 2 kids with no interest, no concentration & very little ability. The last 2 seem to play because their parents make them. What do I do about the last 2?? They make training difficult, 1 feins injury on court and the other is in tears as he can't score a basket and gets very little of the ball. I try to encourage his defensive play and be ultra encouraging to them all. I also believe in equal game time. At 8 y,o however, I find it immoral to cut anyone?? I coach in Australia where basketball is a developing sport and good reference is hard to come by. I would appreciate your Ideas about the last 2 please??

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Steffan Matins says: 3/12/2015 at 3:47:59 PM Hi Scott, I would try and find one achievable goal and get them to concentrate on that. eg 3 rebounds for the game. It is often amazing how, with a tiny bit of confidence, kids will concentrate better, start to improve and then become more engaged. By the way, in case anybody had the impression basketball was small in Australia, I coach in the EDJBA in Melbourne, which is a junior competition boasting almost 10,000 participants. Steffan Like     login   register

Some great suggestions in these comments and as a director of a Youth league some ideas to pass on to our coaching volunteers. I understand the dilemma for Joe. We ask each player to write a little blog about why they are playing and what they would do if they didn't play basketball. It is written during a practice and they are not required to sign it. It has been interesting to find the children who are there because parents want it. We then have a sports psychologist from a local university (volunteer) who comes in and makes a presentation to the players and then the parents. She also shows up at various practices and has become a real part of our program. She often makes the connect for the players and parents with what the child really wants. Also has boosted many who lack the confidence. Don't know what we will do if we lose her. I agree that at the level you refer to "cutting" a player isn't an option but most will take easily to a positive redirection such as playing more successfully in a less competitive environment. By the way at that level the parents voted years ago not to keep score or scoring records but will record assists on the bench so even the most inept player gets a chance for that

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Thanks joe for the response and for the website, it is a wealth of knowledge for a volunteer coach like my self .because of this website (and my Bob Bigalow dvds)all the kids on the team have a bright future in the game . I am actively seeking another coach that can take on some of my players and i can hopefully assist. It's just good for me to get some advise form someone who has seen alot of these scenarios play out
thanks again
Joe Clayton
p.s. my son and i are looking forward to attending the skills camp in April.

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One of the big issues, I see is that 3rd graders don't need to be playing in leagues and tournaments at all!
They are way better off practicing on fundamental skills so that they really have a solid foundation once they do get up into the 6-8th grades.
Kids in 3rd/4th grade are quite content to be able to come together once a week for an hour to learn and practice skills. It doesn't sound like the number of kids is a problem.

Finishing off a practice by picking teams - line-up by height and count off by 3's or 4's. Rotate teams in every 5-7 minutes, and they're big-time happy that everybody gets to play.

I think when you really look into what and how long kids that age are able to concentrate on, then you'd see that they'd get the most out of your coaching by building that solid foundation. Be patient, let them enjoy the sport with their friends. The more they learn to play together, the more successful they're going to be at the high school level when it's more competitive. (And I hate to bust some bubbles, but less than 6% of high school basketball players continue on to the next level.)
http://www.scholarshipstats.com/varsityodds.html

My philosophy is: "Kids have to have enough fun in a sport to stay with it long enough to get good."

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Sandra says: 3/29/2015 at 5:37:39 AM I love your philosophy - should be at the front of all coaches minds in all sports Like     login   register

I agree to keep the team together. I also agree that 3rd grade may be too early to be playing in tournaments, though, pushing kids to max out their potential is always great.

Be explicit that one teams focus is on scoring and that the others is on execution and skill development. Set and manage expectations.

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