Amen to that Rob -

These are young kids... let them have FUN.... playing well is a by product of a sound fundamental team.

I would like to keep this team together for next year but with our rec league, I'll have new kids each year - except for my son and my asst coaches sons. I've coached for 4 years now and have never had the same team.

I will say, for this tournament, I had some really good bb minded kids and after our practices, I was thinking "Holy Cow, so that's how practices are suppose to go." The kids just understood everything the first time I'd show them - which in turn made it fast-paced and fun for everyone - even the parents were amazed.

I'm pretty sure we won't go the tournament route for a year or two, but we won't go back to the rec league we were with either. The YMCA here has a pretty good league that has multiple divisions (based on talent). This league allows to go zone, M2M, press ... but we may not be going against teams that play year-round like we would by going MAYB. I guess this may be something in-between for the kids to have a little more competition and exposure to additional offenses/defenses.

I think you would do your kids a bigger favor staying away from leagues that allow zones and pressing etc. These are young kids that have so much to learn.... You can win a lot by playing zones because not many kids that age can shoot from the perimter..... and pressing/trapping, a recipe fo disaster at this age. JMO

Stay away from zones and presses until they get to the middle school age where the kids are a little bigger and stronger.

Lets see what Jeff & Joe and some of the other coaches have to say.... but this is my opinion.

Coach Sar, I really would like to stay in a league with just M2M, but the only one that would give our town access to their league is the one we've been going to (we're out in the boonies). The biggest issue I have with this league is that they have 1 ref for each game and they let the boys play ... and by that I mean some serious and hard fouls are committed for both teams - and to the point of I had a player of mine that got punched out of another teams frustration (and nothing was done by the ref/coach/league)

The league play is getting really out of control. I'd like to stay there as long as they can address this issue. Otherwise, I guess we'll be learning how to play vs zone defense.

Ok, I get the picture... I wouldn't let my kids play in a game like that either. You might talk to whoever runs that league and whoever assigns the refs... explain to them that it is their job to PROTECT those kids and NOT let the games get out of hand.... that administrator should have a coaches meeting to discuss this type of behavior and let them know it will NOT be tolerated. If they want to play physical, go play football. There is NO excuse for play like this. I don't understand the coaches not taking control of this.

If they cant work things out, I guess you will have to go play some zones.

Sounds like you have fewer options for leagues in your area; I'd definitely opt for the Y vs that league that is more hack and whack. Even though you'll be playing against some zones and presses, it is the lesser of two evils.

Regarding rec leagues that allow traps, zones, and presses at younger ages (3rd - 5th), I think that is a HUGE mistake. Notice I said rec leagues though. The thrust of all the rec leagues I coached in always emphasized things like: "every kid plays", "equal playing time", "working on fundamentals", and the most important one "having FUN", so the kids want to come back and do it again. No tryouts and one practice per week.

Most 3rd-5th graders are still developing basic basketball skills and adding pressure before they are ready is a recipe for disaster. I watched it time and time again, one or two kids would dominant the game and it would turn into a chaotic mess of kids trying to steal the ball and fast break, only to miss 99% of the layups. You had 2-3 kids getting most of the ball touches and the rest watched as everyone just ran up and down the court at a frantic pace. No bueno.

I coached in a rec league environment for 25 seasons of sports (soccer, basketball, flag football) and we had a blast. No superstars, just a great group of kids/parents that enjoyed hanging out together and playing sports. We had goofy team names, great team cheers, made sports vids of seasons, won quite a few games, took on kids that never played a sport in their life, etc. I'm not bragging, but we had the rec thing down and kept a core group together for all those seasons.

The rub came when we decided to venture into the world of competitive basketball at the end of 5th grade. The rec league wasn't cutting it as we were starting to dominate other teams. So, we entered a city-wide tournament and just got smoked. Our team had never played against REAL presses, zones, and traps. It was bad. Our 6th grade year was better, but still really rough. This past year, we ended up doing a lot better, but that's after playing in three competitive leagues and a handful of tournaments - close to 70+ games (no joke).

Knowing what I know now, I probably would've introduced our kids to the competitive world during their 5th grade season. Staying in the rec arena wasn't a viable option and there were no in-between leagues. Coming from all those seasons of a rec mentality and trying to make the transition to the basic competitive world was brutal. I watch teams get crushed all the time in the competitive leagues/tourneys for the same reason we did.

Curious what some of the other coaches think about the timing of when to explore the more competitive side of things?

That's interesting. We have a rec commission here as well (soccer, baseball, basketball) and our town has just enough boys per grade to fill 1 big soccer team and 1 big baseball team but 2 basketball teams (7-8 kids per team). That becomes pretty hairy at times because my assistant coach and I are the only ones who really care to coach - and by that I mean actually taking pride and enjoy seeing the kids grow as player. All the parents want their kids on my team - I'll accept judgement from you coaches on this topic:) - but I don't want 14-16 kids on the bb team. It's too many to coach effectively, so I split the teams up and almost always hear some flack from the parents whose kids are not on my team (which I understand).

It's about the worse position to be in because the basketball league is psuedo rec/compeitive. The league says they are rec and has the "every kid has equal playing time" rules but the atmosphere of the parents and coaches in the league is almost hostile. I told the league if they wanted to calm everyone down they need to hire more than 1 ref per game and stop keeping score. Not sure if they'll go with that format though, so now I may need to let my 4th graders (next year) get into those more competitive leagues and introduce them to presses/traps/zones. Not too happy about it but I don't think I have a choice.

brent - that's a tough situation you're in. I live in a very big city, so we have several options, but the Y seems to be the league of choice for rec basketball around here. Sounds like your rec leaders and refs aren't really into it and that can ruin a program quickly. Do you have to travel to other small towns to play teams? What does the basketball scene look like for 5th/6th graders in your area?

The rec scene in general can be a big bummer if not handled properly with huge disparity between teams. Kids get bummed out and aren't having fun, only to eventually drop out and never return. Keeping scores and standings but also telling everyone it's all about the fun is a tough gig for a coach. No coach wants to get blown out or be at the bottom of the standings, so keeping the score and standings adds an underlying pressure whether it's talked about or not.

I think rec leagues would benefit more if the directors emphasized things other than standings and scores. Maybe give out awards for most passes in a game, or most assists, or best sportsmanship, or hustles, or anything to get the focus off the standings and scores. The refs could help during the game by encouraging kids during the breaks about how well they are passing or defending, etc.

As I browse through these past few posts, I think JMO that the problems are with the parents and coaches with a WIN attitude.

Winning is fine, but not at the cost of fundamentals and having FUN. You need to have pre season meetings and talk about your goals... Is it WINNING or teaching kids the fundamentals of the game and getting them ready to play at the next level.

Write down your goals, discuss it with the parents and make sure they are on the same page. As for when to go into a zone, pressing and / or trapping league..... I for one think that the 6th grade is early enough.... those coaches that do that stuff are thinking about winning only. You can win a lot of games at that age because the kids cant handle it well (at least the average kid) Again, JMO

Thanks to this forum, I've adopted the pre-season coaches/parents meeting in all the sports I coach and it's helped out tremendously. I actually added something else to the mix this past bb season and asked the boys and parents to bring with them a sheet of paper that states the #1 goal they hope to obtain this season. It's just a way to visualize the difference in every kid and every parent and myself. If we all have the same goals, awesome but it rarely turns out that way.

14 Boys Response:
6 = They wanted to win
8 = They wanted to have fun

21 Parents Response:
7 = Wins (as it promotes self-confidence?)
8 = for the boys to improve by season end
6 = their son to have fun

Those 6 boys who want to win, I explain you can't do that if you don't take care of the fundamentals and improve on those. Winning at all costs is not my M.O.