Coaches,

I know this topic has been covered over and over again but I wanted to get your thoughts on a specific approach. Keep in mind that this question is coming from somebody who uses 50% of practice to teach defense and 80% of our defensive drills are man drills.

My question is why do you reccomend man only defense for younger ages as an absolute? In my personal opinion, if approached correctly, a combination of the two is much more beneficial. What I mean is that we teach defense with man concepts only. Proper body positioing. Proper slide steps. Understanding defense is played with your feet. We progress to on ball defense, one pass away defense, two pass away defense, help defense, etc. We use multiple drills to enforce this (there is more to it than the little I typed). What I have found is when this is the foundation for the teaching, it flows right into zone concepts and makes whatever zone we run that much more effective. I understand reccomending against the lazy coach putting a team in a 2-3 and saying "dont let them score" but I can't say I agree with stunting a child's athletich development if you put them in a zone at young ages. I actually find the opposite to be true. I've found the zone defense we run (we're about 50/50 zone/man) is much more aggressive and the rotations are very quick and when in man, our help defense is exceptional. It falls right in line with team basketball and the "never leave your brother alone" philosophy that translates to team basketball on both ends of the floor.

Thought?

I

I'll take a stab. First off, it sounds like you're doing a great job and if that works for you, I don't see a major problem with it. Imo, you're the exception to the rule though. I don't think playing M2M is an "absolute", it's more of a strong suggestion from coaches who've been down the road a bit further and see what's coming (i.e. how to make the more competitive or high school team). It's too tempting at the younger levels for a coach to use a zone defense to "cover the sins" of a weaker player.

No matter how you slice it, a zone is a zone, especially at the younger levels. Kids get used to their "area" of responsibility. With M2M, their man can go anywhere on the court and they have to figure out where to be in relation to their man, the ball, and the basket. In a zone, once a man leaves your area, it's technically not your responsibility.

Personally, I believe the dynamics of playing M2M forces players to cover more ground, exposes them to more offensive scenarios they must defend, and increases their court sense. It forces them to make more (and quicker) decisions by playing M2M.

I think the main concern of implementing a zone at the younger levels is that most coaches aren't like you. Most youth teams aren't sophisticated enough to beat a zone, so they end up taking a bunch of outside shots and missing. The zone coach likes the defense because he can hide a weaker player, kids don't get as tired, it looks like they have a stellar defense and they end up winning more games. It gets real tough to switch back to a M2M if you're winning games and sitting higher in the standings.

When you switch from M2M to a zone defense during a game, what's your reasoning?

Coach Rob,

Great question. Truth is, I switch to man to man for many of the reasons you outlined. Yes, I've used it to cover up a mismatch. Yes, I've used it to minimize fatigue. I've used it to put them in better position to rebound. I've used it for all the "lazy reasons" that you guys probably advocate against.

That being said, there are several reasons I that am comfortable with this. First, we're coaching youth and (if we're being honest) the majority of our kids are not going to play for their highschool team. I coach 11U. Don't get me wrong, I have a few that I'm confident will and coincidentally, they excell and are our best m2m defenders. In addition, youth sports is about having fun and building confidence. I have seen lopsided matchups that do the opposite. When one or two particular defenders continue to struggle it discourages them and they tend to feel like they are letting the team down. It can put the "spotlight" on a couple indviduals and those lopsided athletic contests put them front and center . Also, we play 2 20 minute halves with running clocks including freethrows. Between inbounding the ball and a couple of shooting fouls, you could see a 10 minute run off with 4 minutes of real action. I can get them more experience in 15 minutes of practice than a whole game affords them.

Truth be told, when those lopsided matchups embarras somebody or a zone puts them in a better position to succeed I use it. Yes, when I say better position to succeed I mean better position to win. It may not be a popular view but I also think that winning is important, even at 11. I know you guys really advocate a positive experience and in the end "make it fun". You've seen your kids faces after a win and after a loss...Which one looks like they're having more fun?

I guess my point is that I'm not sure I buy playing m2m in a game is where the teaching is. I DO STRONGLY BELEIVE that very few coaches spend enough practice time on defense. I believe 95% of practice should be fundamental drills. I believe I can teach alot more in a planned well structured practice than I can in games they way they are played at out level. In practice, they're exhausted. In the same time frame of the game, not so much.

One of the reasons we recommend man exclusively is because VERY few youth coaches have the background or experience to teach a zone the right way. Once you open the door, coaches just can't resist. So we think we do the basketball community the most good by recommending man exclusively.

And once youth coaches start playing zone, very few will change back to man. The pressure from the parents and everyone that expects them to keep winning is just too much.

Also, even in a very active zone, how much does your center move their feet, sprint, cross over, and use complex foot movements that develop foot coordination, speed, and agility? Maybe your zone is different, but I have never seen a zone defense that teaches that. In our M2M out centers have to guard out on the perimeter and sometimes pick players up at half court. It's incredible for improving reaction time, developing foot coordination, and agility. They REALLY have to work hard and they are pushed out of their comfort zone. The only way to really develop and improve is to get out of your comfort zone.

Anyway, those are just a couple thoughts I wanted to through out there and a few of the reasons behind the M2M recommendation. BTW, I assume you have read this article?
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/defense/age.html

I can guarantee my youth coaches thought I would never play high school basketball. But they were wrong. You just never know. This year I have a freshman on the team who is statistically our third best player on a very good undefeated 14-0 team. Last year he was on C squad an an 8th grader. Nobody thought he would be playing HS ball.

And even if somehow you turn out to be right on who will play high school ball, you won't be doing any service to a couple of those kids that you mentioned.

I really don't think zone is the answer to the problems you are facing. Maybe mixing it in would help. But you learn so much from losing. So many opportunities for life lessons. So many other ways to motivate players (http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/mental/motivate-players.html). And I'll tell you... there is nothing better than taking a team of losers. Sticking to your guns and after lots of hard work and perseverance, winning a few games and seeing improvement. My biggest joy out of coaching has been after losing game and game with outmatched players, sticking to my guns, developing them, and eventually turning them around and having some success. It takes time. But those can be the most rewarding teams. Seeing them get faster, more coordinated, more skills and then having success. It's a good feeling. And then teaching/showing them why they improved... hard work, perseverance, team work, helping each other, etc. Something they will hopefully never forget.

Coach Jeff,

Yes, I have read that article. Make no mistake about it, most of what I do is as a result of what I've learned here. You guys are great at what you do for the basketball community. I know it's made me a better coach and more importantly my kids better ball players. Your assesment on my centers lack of movement in a zone is correct as well. He covers some space but it's from the top of the key to 10 feet outside either block at most.

The funny thing is I don't question your rationale at all and actually agree with it. Improving foot work, speed, coordination, and agility is criticle for every player. As a matter of fact, every drill we run incorporates something that improves these attributes. What I have a hard time wrapping my head around is the concept that if they are not playing man all game it's stunting their growth or doing them a diservice. There are some absolutes when it comes to playing any type of defense and my contention is that if these absolutes are drilled repeatedly we're making better defenders whether it's in a man or zone defense. I think the emphasis we should put on coaches is to split practice time evenly between offense and defense. Drill those absolutes in the environemnt that gives our players the most attention and repetitions and the time to really push them out of their comfort zone...Practice! If we truly do that, whether it's m2m or zone our team defense improves greatly.

Lots of ways to go about things. Not necessarily a right or wrong way. In the end it all comes down to whether you make a positive impact on these kids lives or not. :)

We give you props for putting thought and effort into what you do as a coach. I wish more coaches did the same. Let us know if we can do anything else for you.

It appears you are really trying to make sure your players are enjoying the season. That's huge! I think it boils down to a coaching philosophy and I agree with Jeff, there's no right or wrong way here. It's a matter of your goals and philosophy as a coach.

Are we talking a U11 competitive type league or more rec level here?

Have to chime in on the "playing high school ball" piece. I've seen potential studs drop out and average players keep at it to become studs. Then the former studs show back up a year later and can't keep up. Kids grow and mature at different rates/times. I guarantee you if a few parents that watched my son play in 6th grade watched him now, they wouldn't believe it was the same kid. Both physically (was 5' 6", now 6' 1") and playing wise (2 pts per game vs 10-12 pts per game now). I almost made the mistake of counting him out back in 6th grade.

I understand this concern, however, you can't take away the reality of the sport either. If someone isn't as good as their opponent, that's ok. That's how they learn. When I had weaker players, I would try to match them up with someone at the same skill level. Didn't always happen perfectly, but more times than not, I could do it unless the other team was filled with studs. Again, personal preference here. I would tend to make the weaker player learn even if we gave up baskets. Good life lessons just in a situation like this.

Again, depends on your coaching philosophy and the level of play (developmental vs. tryouts/competitive league). This year my team is 1-7 in one league and 4-4 in another. Both leagues are at the highest competitive level. Last year, we came in 2nd place in two highly competitive tourneys and ended up with decent records in both winter leagues. Over the summer we played in club team level tourneys and discovered quickly that we weren't all that. Couldn't break a press (from a good team) to save our lives and the kids just didn't seem tough enough to hang. Made it through and ended up winning a few games towards the end of summer.

This year we decided as a team (players included in decision) to play at the highest level. The main reason was to give all the players an idea (and shot at making) of what high school freshman ball will be like. At this point in the season, my kids can break a press with relative ease and have become a lot tougher all around. They handle pressure with a lot more composure than over the summer. The records might not show it, but they've improved immensely. Every once in a while a team from our former level of play asks us to scrimmage. Talk about fun!

Let me just say I never imagined our team would be playing at the highest 8th grade level. I remember back in 5th grade thinking we'd stay at the YMCA level and just mosey along. Boy, was I wrong!

Lots of life lessons in losing and playing against tougher competition. But, that's a topic for another thread.

On a side note: I noticed several teams that we played against last year (with winning records) that stayed at that same competitive level and currently have 8-0, 7-1 records. Nothing wrong with that and the kids are probably having fun. In fact, they probably see our records and wonder what happened to us. However, I know, in the end, my kids will be better prepared if they choose to continue playing competitive basketball.

There isn't a lot more that I can add here...... Jeff, Joe, Rob and other coaches know how I feel about this subject, especially with this age group. It's NOT all about winning here... its about teaching them how to play the game via fundamentals. YOU are doing a great job with that, we all commend you.
IF you sit down with your kids and parents in a pre season meeting and explain what you are trying to accomplish, I think you will find that everyone will be happy.
I was a Boys Varsity high school coach and I can tell you that every year we got a few kids that didn't make their Jr Hi team... os ome made it and didn't play. Many of these became varsity starters and some all conference. There is a diamond in the rough many times. I loved it when kids came in knowing how to play m2m defense and could pass/catch and shoot the ball. I knew I could teach them the rest.
Anyway, keep up the good work teaching the fundamentals.... but at this age I wish you would play all m2m.

Rob -



I learned early in my varsity coaching career about breaking a press...... got torched one game because we stunk at it. The next day we spent 30 minutes on it.... and I vowed that I was not going to get beat because we couldn't handle some Micky Mouse press..... so..... we ran our press offense every day for 10 minutes, 1 day vs m2m and the next day vs a zone... They could run our press offense in their sleep..... did we turn it over once in awhile? Sure, but we didn't panic, we just went about our business. Just thought I would throw that in here.

Coaches,

You are correct, my assesment of who is going to play HS is probably inaccurate at 11. Interests change and bodies mature at different rates. The point I was trying to make (poorly) is that many of the kids playing now will not be playing in high school so preparing for the next level does not apply to the majority. We are a competetive 11U team that was selected via tryouts. Because of this, there is a statisticall probability that I have some HS players on my roster but with all the different distractions in the world it's likely I'm stil coaching quite a few kids that won't play HS ball. Since that's the case my priorities are the kids having fun, learning the fundamentals of the game, raising better young men, and winning. In that order.

Since it's a competetive team I approach it differently than I would an in house team. Winning is not the goal, it's the result. Our goals are broken down to things like winning every loose ball, playing unselfish basketball, and many many more. If we focus on those things, the results take care of themselves. My contention is that going to a zone defense to hide a weekness or in an attempt to win a game in itself is not a bad thing. Coach Sar, because of guys like you, Jeff, and Rob it's it's very important that I send my kids to high school with AT LEAST the skill set you outlined.

I'm not sure how many coaches frequent this site because I would say EASILY 90% of the teams we play are exclusively zone teams. It's apparaent why. With our time constraints it's just easier to be competetive with less teaching time if you play zone. My point is that based on what I see very few listen and apply your sound advise so I'm suggesting an alternative. Understand that practice time is worth it's weight in gold. Every second has to be accounted for and 50% of that time needs to be devoted to defense and drilling m2m defense until their little legs burn :). That's when they're getting the meaningul reps and if you can't play man, your zone probably isn't very good anyway.

Teach them a love for the game, drill fundamentals, AND win some games!