Help fixing offensive woes

Hello,

I would like some advice for coaching my 2 and 3 grade youth basketball team. I tried to add in dribble hand offs to help with nervous players just chucking the ball somewhere close to a teammate only to have most of the passes intercepted by the defense. Also, they were not protecting the ball well and having the ball stolen from them while dribbling a lot. We have improved the ball security from a dribbling perspective with some games like shark ( dribble your ball and try to steal someone elses at the same time ), red light / green light ( just like the game, except follow all dribbling rules or go back and start over ), and a few others. But, the dribble hand offs in general has back fired since the whole team runs to the ball for a hand off. This causes the dribbler to become trapped.

So, we were thinking to do a basic motion offense. But, how do I actually teach it. We tried the other day, they were pretty confused no matter which way we tried to explain it.

And I do not think they are too young to learn this, because we have lost every game and the other teams seem to have figured something out. So, if they could do it, we certainly can also, right?

Thanks in advance!

I would teach a 5 out pass and cut offense to start out with.
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/offense/cutters.html

The biggest things for you to focus on offensively are:
- spacing
- movement
- fundamental skills

That's it. The 5 out will help with that, even though it will be messy since the kids are so young. You can use spots and/or the 3 point line to help with the teaching of it.
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/store/shopexd.asp?id=123

Players cut and then if they don't get the ball they fill an open spot.

Here are some articles about what I have done with my daughters team from 2nd - 4th.
http://jeffhaefner.com/coach/category/3rd-grade-basketball/
http://jeffhaefner.com/coach/category/4th-grade-basketball/

Thank you for that information. I have found this site useful on more than one occasion. I never played organized basketball at any level, but I played playground with many of my friends along the way that had played organized. So, I do not have the luxury of experiencing drills and such when I was younger. However, I do understand theories in basketball from playing and watching on television. So, I do understand everything that was mentioned on the site you sent for the 5 out. What is funny is that my assistant and I were discussing this the other day. There is a lot more detail and great rules on that page though that will make it easier to explain. That is always our challenge. Take everything from our heads and get it into theirs...lol.

Anyways, thanks for the help.

So, just for an update, this worked well after one practice. I always try to give them little glimpses of stuff like this because it is a little on the boring side for them. I try to spice it up, but they can only take so much. So, I started at the beginning of practice with 1 rule. You pass, you cut. That's it. Then, fill back to 5 out. They started to figure it out and filled the 5 out on their own after several reps. Then, at the end of practice, after a few more fun drills like knock out in between, I added if the cutter is covered, then fill and pass again. That passer cuts since that is still Rule #1, you pass you cut again. Basically, the pass then just came from the wing on pass #2 instead of from the top of the 3 point line.

I was going to add in rule #2 as: if the dribbler looks at you, you cut. That was one from the page also. This I believe should help when they are "stuck"...meaning they picked their dribble up, cannot move, and are too far away to shoot or are covered well and cannot shoot.

Rule #3 was going to be dribbler always wins. This is similar to your rule where they can dribble to balance the floor and to drive to the hoop. If the dribble arrives at a spot where someone else is, basically, get out of their way and let them dribble. We can work picks into this later. But, one thing at a time for now...lol.

I will try to let you know how this goes on our next practice and game in a few days.

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One side note also, is there something on here that shows how I can get them to create some space when they already picked their dribble up, are too far away to shoot, and the defense is smothering them. I tried working on ball security, pivoting their feet and moving the ball around, but its hard to explain sometimes. If I could get some guidance for this situation where they are being pressured and cannot dribble anymore, that would help a lot. I figure also, it should help them feel more comfortable and then they can pick their head up more to look for the cutters.

Regarding your last question, we practice pivoting on day 1 of practice for beginners. Start with front pivot. Then reverse. Then step through. Then drop step. Then sweep. Then start combining pivots. For second graders, we usually can get through front, reverse, and step through pivots during the first year. Then the following season we add more pivots when they are ready.

Next, we practice keeping the ball out of the box when defense is close to you (ball should be below your knees or above your nose). So we practice triple threat (shooting position), then long step through (aka: space step) ripping the ball below knees, then pivot back to start position (ripping ball above head). We just have everyone line up and practice these movements together.

Also, some drills you can do are:

14.7s. Players must protect the ball for 4.9 Seconds. Dribble out while closely guarded for 4.9 seconds. Then protect the ball for 4.9 seconds again. Goal is not let the defense touch the ball.

https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/playcreator/view.asp?id=139&type=drill

No dribble drills (3on3, 4on4, 5on5). We do a lot of teaching players to use those pivots and protect the ball in no dribble drills and no dribble keep away passing drills.

That all sounds good. I started going over pivots 2 practices ago. Some players were ok with it. Even one of my most talented players struggled a lot with this. I noticed a lot of stiff legs while trying to pivot. This basically looked like how a robot would try to pivot.

Keeping the big picture in mind, my thinking behind it is if I am taking away the hand offs, I need to give them other solutions for the problems they will face with the 5 out. The pivots and ripping the ball high and low, along with triple threat ( which we have covered a little ), should let them feel more confident to hold on to the ball instead of just panicking and chucking it up for grabs so to say. Also with the 5 out, there will be times where they will need to hold the ball for several seconds until someone is open. In a few of our games so far, some of our players had allowed the defense to reach in and take the ball right from their hands even when they were holding it with 2 hands. So, I believe if I combine these teachings together, it should make the 5 out work a little better. I expect it to not work so good for the first few games since its new. But, even my assistant agreed that this seems like a better route to even help them in the future.

Thanks for the continued posts. Hopefully others will find this conversation useful as well. :-)

In watching my daughter's 3rd grade team of below average skill, they have a lot of trouble completing a pass to initiate the offense in the 5 out. The point guard getting that initial pass to the wing is a 50-50 proposition. Their coach has done a good job in teaching the wings to make some V cuts to get open, but still, a 3rd grade girl having the strength to make a pass of longer than 15 feet is pretty rare. It frustrates their poor coach to no end.

I saw the same things which is why I went to the dribble hand off after doing research to go around some of these issues. But, I think in the end the 5 out is the way to go for us for now and live with the turnovers for now. They will be better off in their development later. It won't look as good as some of the other teams now, but if they gel, there is the potential of us being very good by season's end. Some of the other teams are basically letting one or two kids do most of the dribbling also. I let all 8. I want them all to develop. I think that may also be why we are losing a lot. But, I am concerned about all our team, not just the best one or two players.

Thanks for the reply!

After our latest game using our 5 out, the offense ran better. We still have a lot of improving to do, but that is ok. There was more spacing on the floor. However, as the game went on, our offense got sloppier and we reverted back to old habits. This tells me that the 5 out will work for us, it will just take more practicing to lock it in so its automatic.

I also noticed that some players struggle with ball security through travelling, double dribbles, and turnovers. No matter what offense is ran, if the point guards can not comfortably hold on to the ball at the top, any coaching adjustments I make are irrevant at that point. We may make some adjustments with who runs the point with the better dribblers. then, I can teach them to slow down on offense and set up the 5 out. Wish us luck!

In regards to the problems getting that first pass to the wing to initiate the offense, I've found that starting in a 3 out 2 in set, then having the two wings set down screens for the 2 blocks really opens up the initial pass. After setting the down screen, the screener just pops out the corner and now you're in 5out.

Another option is to start in 5out, but as the point guard is advancing the ball up the floor the two wings run automatic basket cuts and the corner players fill up to the wings. This gets movement started and those players filling to the wings are generally open. And if the first wing defender is sleeping you get a wide open cutter for a layup without even having to run any pass and cut offense.

I would also avoid the dribble hand-off for the following reason:

One of the major issues in youth basketball is the tendency of the kids to flock towards the ball when the ball gets stuck.

Spacing is such an important concept to teach young kids, and running to the ball such a difficult habit to break. I always teach kids that if they aren't open, don't run to the ball, run away from the ball. Dribble hand-off teaches the opposite concept and, just in my opinion only, creates a bad habit among youth players.

It is something though that can be taught later in their careers after they have mastered the concepts of spacing.

Just my two cents.

Brian Sass

In our last practice, they started picking it up some. We added to call out the name of the player they want to cut to the hoop. Looking at them was not working. Again, they defaulted to caos after the first initial pass fails. There is no continuous motion yet.

What I basically noticed was a more simptle problem. Each thing we teach, there are usually 5 other things done incorrectly at the same time. It becomes impossible to correct these items. However, I took a step back and remembered how fun the beginning of the season was. This was because I made everything I wanted to teach them into a game. So, I am going to attempt this with 5 out. I also feel that they are overwelmed and do not really understand the rules. They only focus on the last thing we taught them. So, if I run throuh the scenarios, time them, make them compete on teams against each other while timed, they should like that more based upon previous practices.

So, to provide specific examples, I will have them first pass, cut and receive the pass back to shoot. Next, they will pass, cut, no pass to cutter since we will pretend they are covered, then pass to player filling top spot in 5 out. Without listing every scenario here, if we run through them, I think they may get to understand what they can and can not do without listening to me tell them what the rules are.

We may add the auto cuts later. But, right now, I think their heads may explode if I throw one more new thing at them. I want to get these few things down first.

Wish us luck!

My motion offense is pass and cut or pass and screen away. We also teach them how and when back cuts are applicable.

I use a lot of the Read and React drills to instill this mindset into my team. To me, R&R is just a fancy title and a few twists on a basic motion offense. Look up Connecticut Attack on youtube. They are a girls travel or AAU program and you can watch entire practices on their channel. You can really see the pass and cut and backcut drills in action.

Then we progress to shell drill with various rules. Sometimes it's no dribbling or maybe 1-2 dribbles to either improve the pass or get straight to the hoop.

When installing an offense you need to find the right balance of drill work to teach the concept, then live scrimmage work to perform the concept in a game setting.

Just my opinion.

I agree about the balance. It is only my second year. So, I am still learning myself. But this site has been useful. I will look them up on YouTube later. Thanks!

In our most recent game, the designated point guards actually looked to pass in our 5 out. But, noone was open because I taught them to pick their spot and stay there. Well, that is easy to guard. The plus is as that broke down, there was at least room for the dribbler to move. So, we are on the right path. There are so many things to fix at this age, its so tough to get them to run a 5 out efficiently.

The next practices, I am going to try and command them to do each item. Maybe it will stick if I tell them who to pass to, when to cut, etc. If they get many reps, maybe it will start to sink in. Some of the players still want to stand in the middle and still want to follow the ball. We are making progress., but its slow...lol.

Something that MAY be easy for them to do and I say MAY because there are lots of things youth players have trouble remembering because, you know, they are kids: on the initiating pass for the 5 out, teach them if their player is over the 3-point line, automatically back cut and replace. It may get the movement flowing and keep them from just standing still at the start.

So if the defender is outside the arc denying, go to the basket. If they are inside the 3 point line, v-cut towards the ball.

Just some thoughts .

Brian Sass

Have you added the down screen to get a player open coming out to the wing for the first pass of the offense? I think that will really help get things moving for you. I know it seems like it goes against what a lot of motion offenses want, but it has worked for me. I don't think it's a difficult thing to teach. And when the kids see that it is effective, they will enjoy it that much more.

Also, how much scrimmaging are you doing in practice? It sounds like your players may lack the experience of what to do when things are breaking down because they only do the drills that are meant to show them how to do things and foster success against minimal defense.

If you're not doing it already, try some scrimmaging where they aren't allowed to dribble. The kids will start discovering on their own how they can get open and get those passes. Once they get the hang of that, then you can add new rules like giving them a limit on how many dribbles they can use.

Good luck!

I have enough challenges as is, so I have not added the down screen. Ya, I want to. You are correct. It would help. But, they have so many things to work on, how can I add yet another thing for them to remember?

We have only 1 practice once a week for an hour. We had two, but once the season started we went down to one and the second practice turned into game day. So, I found another place to add a second practice back. But, its still is not enough. I want 3 to 4 practices a week, but its not possible. So, I think that is why they forget because its days in between the last practice.

We also were going to add another scrimmage on Friday, but we could not end up practicing on that day. So, that hurt us for this game. But, we will have 2 practices this week. So, maybe we can get them a little more comfortable. I think no matter what I coach, they need to get more comfortable dribbling with pressure. Then, the 5 out will work. But, as you see above, issues with where to line up, when to cut, etc. are not sinking in yet. Time...all takes time :-).

Thanks for all the ideas though. I actually am taking some of them and using them.

2nd and 3rd grade......1 hour of practice.........

Can you layout a sample of your practice plan? Your typical time allotted to each drill you do? I think this might help some of us give you some specific help on how to be more efficient with your time.

If it were me, and I'm going off memory of how I handled this age group when I was with them, I'd spend 2/3 of practice on individual offensive skills ( ballhandling, shooting layups, passing the ball, shooting from slightly further away from the hoop) and then the other 1/2 of my time on live gameplay. I would start with having them play the traditional 1on1, then progress to 2on2 and maybe 3on3. So you end up with 20 minutes of live gameplay and you can stop to briefly correct or add a tip here and there and then let them play again. I rarely spent any time teaching defense to that age group, outside of some basic stance and slide stuff every now and then.

With this age group, I don't think you should get too carried away with wanting them to run a structured offense. Yes, you should introduce them to it, but I think they shouldn't be help to a very high standard of running it. The only 3rd graders I've ever seen run structured offense were travel teams with 8x the amount of practice you get or mixed age rec teams with advanced youngsters playing with older competition.

Keep things in perspective and make sure they are still having fun, enjoying themselves, improving individually and playing hard.

It took me all of last year (4th grade) and into the summer/fall this year (5th grade) to get my girls travel team to basket cut after a pass automatically, with no thought. It's a process! LOL

And I think it's great that you're on here, asking questions, seeking advice on how to do things the right way. Youth sports needs more coaches like you!

Good idea

First five minutes, free shoot. Next 5 is warm up by dribble around the half court square we practice in and stretch, then maybe red light green light with dribbling, then knockout, then 5 out for a few minutes, then pass game up to 25...first bounce passes, then 2 hand chest, then overhead. Monkey in the middle is their favorite...line up in 5 out, pass only, can not move, if tagged, you are monkey, if turnover, you also are monkey then. Then we are out of time.