M2M Defense

I have a basketball board meeting coming up were the topic of M2M vs zone for our younger age groups is going to come up and I was hoping you might be able to point me in the right direction for quotes by coaches, high school and college, on why Zone is a bad idea for youth. Don't need any ideas on 3 - 3, I just want to keep the discussion on point. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Have you read this article and discussion yet?
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/defense/age.html

Also, every successful coach I have interviewed and have become acquainted with has agreed that zone is bad at a young age. Maybe some of those coaches can chime in here.

Jeff

A subject that is close to my heart!!

The goal of youth coaches should be to teach the fundamentals of the game.. not worrying about Ws and Ls. Your goal should be to get them ready to play at the next level. Who cares if they go 15-0 at the 4th or 5th grade level IF they don't make their teams in high school.
Teach them how to play m2m, EXCLUSIVELY.... that teaches them how to play the game. How to guard the ball... how to play one pass away, how to play two passes away etc.
Believe me, in the long run, they will thank you IF they make their high school teams.
As a boys Varsity coach we loved the kids that knew how to play m2m, the kids that couldn't, were light years behind them.
OK, sorry IF I came across as preaching... but it is very important. Don't let them convince you that zones are the way to go. Tell them to ask the high school coaches in your area... I am sure they will hear the same thing... teach m2m. Good luck
Coach Sar
We would appreciate a reply to this post and HOW things went in your meeting.

I just moved into 5th/6th grade b-ball and because I have a few kids that are a bit weaker, I seriously considered playing a zone to cover for their "sins". After reading through the BTB thoughts on M2M and getting input from other coaches, M2M is the way we're going. Might play a 1-2-2 zone once in a while to mix things up, but 90% M2M for us.

Toughest part is staying disciplined to your philosophy even if the W/L's aren't looking so swift.

CRob

Kudos to you coach! Believe me, they will be better players because of you sticking to your guns and playing m2m D. I know that its tough at this age and it takes a little time to teach those m2m fundamentals and you might suffer a little bit at first. Once they understand the philosophy of playing that type of Defense, other teams are going to have a hard time scoring against you.
It's said that good teams play good defense on the ball, the better teams play good defense one pass away.... the great teams play good defense two passes away and don't allow the ball into the post.
Good luck and your kids are lucky to have a coach like you.

Ken

Three games into our season and every team we've encountered (plus a few I've scouted) play a zone defenses. We're sticking to M2M.

Couple of questions:

1) Finding that a few of our developing players "get lost" in the shuffle and forget who they are covering. Any drills/tricks to help kids remember who they have, esp when subs come in?

2) Looking for some M2M drills that have game-like qualities.

3) Getting beat on drives to the basket, especially baseline. Any drills or ways to teach your kids not to give up the baseline?

Appreciate the input.

-Rob

Rob,

1) Patience, repetition, teaching. Set the kids aside and talk to them when they make mistakes. After plenty of practice and instruction they continue to forget, set them on the bench. They will quickly start to remember who they are guarding.

2) Overload drills are always good (4 on 3, 5 on 4). Here are a few drills:
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/d ... nse-drills

Many more can be found in our defensive guide:
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/p ... fense.html

3) This depends. Are you fronting the post? Are you funnel to your help on the baseline? (I would assume not since you don't want getting beat there. But are you sure that's a problem?) I really like shell drills where you teach positioning. Overload drills are good too. But here are more questions. Why are you getting beat baseline?

Is it because your players don't close out properly? Is it because your players are out of position and don't help? Is it because your players aren't seeing the ball on help side and helping early?

Defense is a team effort and all players need to work together. The man guarding the ball needs to close out properly, stay in a low stance, use good balance, slide feet properly. Then if he gets beat, the players off the ball need to be in proper position ready to help as early as possible. Keep the ball away from the basket! To do this they need to see man and ball at all times. They need to anticipate. They need to be in athletic stance. They need to be in proper help position so they don't have to cover a long distance.

If you don't already have it, it may be in your best interests to pick up our defense guide. I know your questions are answered in there.
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/p ... fense.html

Rob,
As for #s1 & 2, I think that Jeff has given you some sound advice along with his site. There are a lot of good sites out there... and if you're not sure just type in what you are looking for in your search engine.

We were an On/Up the Line m2m team most of the time. We had problems with our players getting beat at times... penetration from the top and getting beat baseline from the wing. I finally decided to give them a frame of reference that they could see and relate to.

From the point we tried to steer them to the free throw line extended, we didn't care which way they went as long as we got the ball OFF the CENTER LINE. This helped us to dictate our help side defense. As for getting beat on the baseline, the frame of reference we used there was the short corner... 8-10 feet from the basket. These two things helped us to improve our m2m defense greatly.

IF we got beat on the baseline it was automatic, we would trap with the post defender. (we were a dead front team) Then we would rotate from the back side and drop the point guard (or whatever defender was there) in front of the post... many times they threw the ball right into his hands.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions or your thoughts on this. Good luck.

Ken

Thanks for the replies. After watching our last game tape, I noticed that the other team's offense was bunching up causing a mob scene in one area. Other things I noticed from the tape:

- our defense playing too close to their man allowing an easy drive to the basket
- not steering the O player out away from the basket, rather letting them drive towards the lane area.
- no help from other d players if someone got beat on baseline.

This is the first year we've been allowed to double-team or help on defense, I can see the kids sticking with their man in situations where they should be helping another player. Tough habit to break for some of them. Letting them watch 10 min of tape with me pointing out good stuff and areas for improvement should help.

Rob, I would add some defensive "rules" as concepts to help guide their thinking.

I'm thinking of going with the following 3 rules (for 9 year olds):

1) Force the ball out and to the corner.
2) Deny the penitration.
3) Double team (Help) if they get into "Our House" which will be defined as an area 5-8 feet from the basket.

My hope is with this thinking in their head, it will help them position properly, ie; not too close to their man so as not to allow the penitration, etc.

On a side note, I had an incident last year after we worked on help defense at practice. Before the game, the ref tells the boys "stick with your man." First 2-3 possessions, the other team blows right by us for the easy lay up. I call time out and ask the kids -- "didn't we work on help defense last week." They say "yes, but the ref told us to stick with our man." At least they were listening to someone.

For 9 year olds, forget help defense. Your time will be better spent on other stuff such as athletic development, skills, and VERY basic offensive concepts. I replied with answers more in-depth at this forum post: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=115

You may want to spend more time playing 1 on 1 games. This will help players develop offensive and defensive skills. I don't know how it works with 9 year olds, but when I coached 11 & 12 year olds, I taught help defense too early and they started to rely on help defense rather than stopping the ball. It was my fault, because I focused on help defense too much. I bet that is why the ref said that.

Remember to focus on the critical few versus the trivial many.

It sounds like you're off to a great start and looking for answers. Thank you for sharing!

No, the ref said it because otherwise you end up with a "rugby" game -- 5 defenders on the ball. Again, I think you need to give some structure and teach them the concepts of "on the ball" and "help." I'm not talking full-fledged defensive theory, but at least if the guy beats your teamate, it is ok to leave your man and defend the ball.

Definitely keep all of the technical advise that is being given. But I believe there is a x factor you must teach as well. Defense is 90% determination. You have to want to stop the offense not hope. Many players spend all thier energy on trying to score. If they spent that same amount on defense they would be great defenders.

Look at Bruce Bowen. Not the most athletic but guarded guys like Kobe eveynight. That was partially IQ and a whole lot of heart.

Coach,
Regarding these points-
- our defense playing too close to their man allowing an easy drive to the basket
**(our players were doing this also so we gave them a frame of referance as to where to steer the ball... the free throw line extended.. this helped us a lot.
- not steering the O player out away from the basket, rather letting them drive towards the lane area.
**From the wing we steered to the baseline short corner, that helped us from getting beat there.
- no help from other d players if someone got beat on baseline.
**We had an automatic call IF they got beat... our post player was to come and double team the ball if he saw that.. we rotated over and we also dropped the (in this case the point guard) down in front of the post.. many times they threw the ball right into his hands.
You need to drill these things until your players understand their roles... it looks like you need to run a shell drill so they understand ballside helpside defense.
Then you need to explain m2m defense to the officials and that when you are two passes away you do NOT stay with your man.

When are youth coaches going to realize that a win is that player who goes on to contribute or standout for his high school varsity and even college team. The only way to get there is to know m2m principles which are the basis for a real zone played by real players anyway. I have a nine year old who plays an a 4th grade team that wastes a significant amount of time trying to teach kids a zone defense that they can't remember. If they spend that time on M2m the kid will become a much better player even if he does not get it right away. Again good zones are suped up man to man defenses but can only be played by kids that understand the concept of good footwork, desire to compete, the ability to communicate with your teammates and the realization that you must help your teammate. I want my child to know m2m because he needs every opportunity to compete at the highest level his talent will take him.

ernio06 - I agree, but it's tough as a youth coach sometimes to stick with doing the fundamentally "right thing" even in a rec league. On the one hand they promote equal play time, learning, and fun, however, on the other hand they keep score, standings and have tournaments with seeds. Rec league or not, no one likes to lose or be at the bottom of the standings.

My team is the only one playing M2M in our rec 5th/6th grade league. No joke. Fortunately, most of my kids have been playing together since kindergarten/1st grade and the parents (very cool parents) all buy into the mindset you mentioned. Even then, it's tempting to zone it when you're getting beat in a game playing M2M.

Coach Rob I applaud you. I guarantee your kids will make you proud one day. Don't compromise their basketball futures for short lived wins that they won't remember much of anyway.

Our rec league has "outlawed" the zone defense. Sounds like more should do the same.

I too coach in a league that is plagued with zone defence and in particular 2-3 zone. My grade 9-10 team is 13-14 yr olds and very athletic. We have good inside strength and size along with very good outside shooters. For the past 2 yrs I have been pushing the M2M defence and worked hard to get it going. Much to the complaint of some parents.

Although most think M2M is a harder defence to teach the payoffs are hugh when done properly and supported by your teammates through help and communication. The few times this year when they have executed the defence properly it has been a wonder to watch the other teams scramble trying to run their "zone offence" against a tough M2M.

The key is to get these kids who are so well equipped to talk or text on cell phones to actually talk and
We then throw in a half court M2M press, cause all kinds of turn overs. NOW, If I can get my guys to start offence with one of two set plays then if it doesn't work free flow... we may be good for the year end championship run.

Golfman,

At least someone has a clue! Kudo's to them.. they should spread the truth to every league around!

Idpaul,

Congratulations to you for sticking to your guns and not succuming to the parents..... You are the COACH... and you are doing those kids a great service by teaching them how to play the game CORRECTLY. It takes a lot of work to teach m2m and a lot of coaches either don't know how to teach it or are just to lazy.... taking the easy way out.

As a Varsity coach I can tell you that I loved the kids that came to me knowing how to play m2m. We played m2m (on the line / up the line) and a match up zone..... but we taught m2m principles every day - funny how you talk about communicating.... our kids did a great job of communicating in our match up... but m2m...
you would have thought that they had all just come from a root canal.:-)

Keep up the good work.