4th Grade Boys- Motion Offesne

I coach 4th grade boys who seem to have difficulty getting into the offensive flow. Our post players are the more skilled players. Our wings and point are not that strong dribbling. I have slowly implemented a motion offense.

Do you have a motion offense recommendation or other recommended offense for a team that relies more on its post players in order for the offense to operate smoother.

Steve,

This is the age where you need to teach ALL the skills to ALL the players. The post players of today might be the point guard of tomorrow - vice versa.

Teach them the fundamentals of the game, m2m defense and a simple pass and cut motion offense - and above all, let them have some FUN.
Don't worry about the Ws and Ls at this age... winning is a by product of sound fundamentals.

Steve

Allow me to be more direct than Ken (he certainly demonstrates the fact the he is more diplomatic than I am, I wish I could be so). why are you giving positions and pigeonholing 10 year old kids? Point guards, wings, post players at this age is like turning a 10 year old kid into a CPA because he likes arithmetic. Just let them play.

In regard to your basketball question, you must be aware that your question is one that is asked by every coach at every level. It might be to a different degree but NBA and college coaches spend a majority of their time worrying about offensive flow. If there was an answer, we would all like to have it.

If you rely on you "post" players, give them the ball more. If you have kids of this age that are "not that strong dribbling," tell me how they are going to get better if you don't let them dribble?

You should be commended for using a motion. Its skill development and long term benefits in allowing kids to develop as players is second to none. If there are issues, the issues are with you. You must realize that the results of your decision may not show themselves for years, but they will show. For today, you will beat teams that have less experienced players and be beaten by teams with more. Your type of offense will have no affect on that.

If you want something that will help today, you should either coach more developed players or another sport.

Don,

As I read this I am laughing.... you certainly have a way with words. :-)

I think my diplomacy comes from my years as a salesman. Now, as for you, you tell it like it is.... straight and to the point... and RIGHT ON TARGET.

Ken

I would like to clarify my post. I was looking for advice on what is the best offense that is easy to learn that will benefit the the team and help them understand offense at a 4th grade level (to the best of their ability). I have read many different ideas on the various components of Motion offense and was looking for something basic to help the them improve. Are there better alternatives than a simple motion offense ?

My post did not mention Wins or losses. I was trying to be more specific in the post that would aid in the response, so I can help the team.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

There is nothing simpler than a motion offense. They will frustrate you because they do not have the skills, background, experience or the physiological development to run it smoothly or even effectively. But it does teach them how to play and use the skills the do have.

Think about this, if this is the simplest offense to run and it doesn't go well, how well will they run something more complex and difficult.

I cannot think of another reason that a coach of this age group would run anything else is that they want results - today. You say you have not said anything about winning but I assure you that when the kids get on the floor, it will be in the front of your mind and paramount for the kids and many of the parents. That is OK but as the coach, you have to take the big picture. Winning is not a goal, but a result. It is the result of better players and doing more of the correct things. I fyou want them to do the correct things they have to learn how to play, not how to run plays.

I don't know if you saw the Breeder's Cup horse races this weekend. If so, think of the motion offense and your kids as Zinyata (?). She was running at the back of the pack for most of the race. When they turned for home, all of a sudden it looked like the other horses were standing still. At the head of the stretch, she was 17 lengths back. At the finish line she lost by a nose. She didn't win but there was no doubt how good she was.

Your team migh hang at the back of the pack for a while (maybe not) but give them time and tools to make the stretch run.

GREAT post Don...

I will go back to my original post.... run a very simple PASS and CUT Motion offense..... teach spacing and that age group will do fine. I think that Don and I are in agreement with running that..... I tell Youth coaches the same thing.. all the time... winning is a by product of solid fundamentals and that will come... but at that age, its not important in the grand scheme of things.... and it seems like you agree.

So, what is the problem with our suggestion to run Motion for your offense?

If you don't already have it, you should take a look at this motion offense ebook. It's a good resource for building a motion offense for all levels.
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/pr/motionoffense.html

I have found that most coaches I talk to have a different perception of what a motion offense really is. Everyone I have talked to and shared this with says the book opened their eyes. I think a local youth coach I recently met and shared the book with said it best just a couple days ago. It went something like "I played high school, college ball, and have always been a fan. I always thought I knew what I motion offense was. Then I read the ebook and realized that I didn't understand and had been off base all this time. The book was great and just what I needed for my youth team."

I coach 4th grade boys team too. I am working to implement the 5-out cutters motion which I think offers great opportunity now and well into future years with this team. My only bump in the road is that my league allows zone defenses and I have a hard time deciding whether to add another offensive set just for zone D.
How can I adjust the 5-out motion to use against an zone? I thought about having the cutters attack the open gaps instead of to the basket but not certain that would work since as soon as pass is made the d collapses on the player.
Also thought about giving up on the 5-out and move to the continuous "Michigan" motion (2 in, 3 out) when against m2m so that it would be easier to transition the boys into an overload to attack zone D, thinking this might be less confusing of a transition.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Coach Al,

I have an adjustment that you can do with 5 out cutters for zone offense. It's pretty much what you mentioned. I'll send you an email with the attachment.

Joe, thanks so much for the offer, keeping eye out for your email. I'm glad to learn that there is some proven way of adjusting the 5-out cutters for handling a zone. I didn't want to move to a separate offensive set. As is mentioning on the forum I like the KISS approach.

Check your spam folder. I already sent it.

Joe,

I run an open post motion with 5th-graders also. After the season, we will join an AAU league that plays high school rules, which is fine because they will be playing high school rules in middle school (next year). I love the offense, and my kids run it very well. We pass and cut or pass and screen with three little entry sets.

Could you please share the zone offense adaptation with me? Many thanks in advance.

nero722,

Do you mind sharing what your "three little entry sets" are? I am always looking to ways to expand my 5 out cutters with options. Thanks.

Sure, Coach Al,

Two of them are super easy: "Down" is simply setting up your corner players (4&5) at the wing, and having them downscreen for the wings (2&3), who then curl to the basket for a pass if their defender follows them or simply pop to the wing for the initial pass to start the cutting series.

Trey is a triple option play that I love and ran in grade school myself. You keep your 2 & 3 on the wings and bring your 4 & 5 up to the elbow. When the point guard brings the ball to midcourt, he does so slightly to one side. This sets up the screen from the 4 at the 3-pt. line (lane line extended)on the right or the 5 on the left. The 1 drives past the screen directly at 2's defender before angling to the basket. He now has these options: 1) drive off the screen all the way to the basket. This is often open b/c there is no help below the FT line; 2) if they switch the screen, the roll is open if the screener seals correctly; and 3) if the wing defender slides over to cut off the dribble, the 2 slips backdoor for an easy layup. I like option 3 the best, and it is almost always open. The opposite wing has to fill the top spot on the drive, and the opposite-side big flattens out to the other wing. Both are responsible for transition defense.

I might have to diagram "Dribble" for you, but it starts in the same 1-4 set as "Trey." I run it left to right as 3-5-4-2 with the point guard up top. He starts to dribble at the right wing (2), who cuts backdoor for option 1. If he doesn't get the pass, he cuts through to the opposite block. 4 then sprints across the foul line to screen for 5, who curls to the basket for option 2. If he doesn't get the pass, he fills the other block. 4 then steps out to the top of the key and receives a reversal pass from 1. On that pass, the 3 sets a down screen for 2 @ the block, and he cuts to the 3-pt. line for either a three-pointer or a shot fake and drive.

Hope that is a bit clearer than mud, but it's the best I can do with words and no pictures. Cheers!

Here is an article on the open post offense.

http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/offense/open-post-offense.html