Did he take the charge?

Some of my 5th graders are learning to take a charge. We definitely stress safety first on these deals. Curious if you think our player took a charge or was this a foul? (We're blue)

http://www.vimeo.com/7751688 (10 sec vid)

I would have called it a charge, but it's a judgment call and you have rec officials and they don't have replay in slow motion :).

I would not worry about what was called. Rather, I would congratulate the player on doing a great job no matter what the result was.

And can you come teach my players how to do that?!?

I was a defensive minded coach also... and to me... it was a charge.... regardless of how the ref called them in our games... we always said.. "Great call ref!"

You have done a great job with these young kids... I think it was a charge to... but I looked at it twice to be sure... the refs don't have that replay in their mind. It looked like the defender had his feet set. REMEMBER, the CHARGE / BLOCK call is probably the toughest call in the game. Don't forget this also... you didn't have Mark Wunderlich (pro ref) on your game.

All we can ask from refs are that they are consistent... that way we can play the game accordingly.

I would congratulate any of your players for even TRYING to take a charge, especially at that age. You have done a great job with them.... tell that boy he can play for me anytime.

I've seen some high school teams play and the next time they even TRY to take a charge will be their first.

Ken

It's not so much the call by the ref, more showing the kids what a charge looks like. Sometimes you only have a split second to get set. Didn't want to show the kids if other coaches felt he wasn't set.

Joe - when you watch it a full speed it's a real tough call from a ref's perspective.

Ken - we definitely didn't argue with the ref, I honestly couldn't tell in the game. Just happened to be reviewing tape and thought it was cool when you slowed it down. Trying to get the kids to take more charges. That happened to be my son.

Appreciate the input!

You can be proud of your son Rob! He did a great job of getting in the right position and taking that charge.

Here is a little something we did as we went down... we would let out a ohhhhhhh!! Just a little something to get the refs attention.

Take a look at this drill:

Watch "Coach Sampson Charge Drill at Indiana Hoosiers basketball practice" Video at HoopsUTV

Have your kids watch it too.... everyone will like this one I guarantee it. Of course, I doubt it if your kids will be able to dunk like they do

Ken

Hi CoachRob,

Here is a link to the video that Coach Sars is referring to: http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/drills/sampson-charge-drill.html

Thanks Joe,

I tried to copy and paste that to no avail. I still cant figure out what I am doing wrong...

I love that drill... of course none of us are going to have a band... the stands half full and several guys that can dunk it.

By the way Rob.... when your son can dunk it this year let me know! :-)


Ken

Charge or not, it was a pretty sweet move.

As for Sampson, neat drill but a real tool as a "coach." Absolutely ruined my IU program.

We actually did the Sampson drill in practice last week. Most of the kids loved it, a few weren't too keen on "taking a charge". My son took a charge in our recent game, refs didn't call it. Had another kid take a charge and get the call. He got to choose anything out the snack machine after the game.

Keep running it.... you will start to get the calls one of these days and you are teaching your kids a valuable skill. Oh yeah, now all you have to do is to get a band and fill the stands in practice.... along with a kid that can dunk and you will have the full package.

Glad the kids like the drill.
Ken

sars300 wrote:Keep running it.... you will start to get the calls one of these days and you are teaching your kids a valuable skill. Oh yeah, now all you have to do is to get a band and fill the stands in practice.... along with a kid that can dunk and you will have the full package.

Glad the kids like the drill.
Ken

You'll also need "friends of the program" if you know what I mean. :)

I know my response is late, but I just came upon this thread. If my response weren't different than the others, I wouldn't bother posting. In my opinion this is a no call. The coaches son had his feet planted and just the fact that he tried to take the charge is great, but the contact came late. It's very close, but it looks like the shooter has already released the ball when the contact is made. He is also standing straight up and doesn't take the charge straight on. The shooter slides slightly off the side of his chest. To the ref, it looks like he tried to take the charge, but missed. These are possible reasons why the ref may not have called the charge.

The Sampson video is a good example of the proper technique for taking a charge. They're completely out of the key when the contact is made. Their knees are bent and they're taking the contact straight on. It should look like the defender is getting knocked down by the force of the offensive player. The key is getting to the spot early. If you're under the basket when the contact is made, then it's too late.

Real nice effort though by coaches son though.

That boy had his feet set and the kid with the ball ran into him... thats a charge in my book....... of course I LOVE defense..... as long as he runs into a SET defender IN THE ACT of shooting... thats a charge... of course... you wont get the call all the time. Your boy did such a great job of getting into the proper position.... feet set, hands in the right place and accepting the contact... can't teach it any better than that.

I agree with you on taking the charge under the basket...... should be a no call but I have seen it made...... got the last T of my career arguing that call..... asked the ref.... isn't he supposed to be in a natual guarding position? YES, then I asked him what he was guarding - the ball coming thru the net? T time.
Most good refs wont make that call.

BTW - I'm glad that you never reffed any of my games. :-)

Yeah, I watched it another 20 times and his feet were definately set, but like I pointed out there are reasons why he didn't get the call. In southern California the ref would have pulled the whistle out of his mouth and told both players to get up. We'll have to agree to disagree :) Great effort by both players though. I'd like to have both of them on my team.

I can agree with that...... but I still don't want you on my games haha :-) They don't call charges on the West coast? I can understand at that age..... you don't get the best officials... usually young kids? AND yes, they could play for me too.

OK, I've been giving this a lot of thought - Are you telling us that they don't call block/charges at your level or at any level?

I can tell you that around here if a kid takes a charge like that boy did, our bench would be up cheering him as would the coaching staff. My comment to that ref would have been....... " That has to be something... a block or a charge! "

Why would the refs decide NOT to make that call, obviously that coach spent a lot of time teaching his kids HOW to play the game the correct way.. I still congratulate that coach and the boy who took that charge. GREAT JOB!!

OMG. I just typed up this big long response and I got timed out and then my whole post got lost. GRRRR! And why does the text keep bouncing up and down when I'm trying to type in a long response. I couldn't see what I was typing. I'm going to copy and paste my responses before I hit submit from now on.

Alright. I'm going to check this thread again to see if my post actually posted. If not I'll submit a brief summary of what I submitted and resubmit it.

Ok. Here it is again. I just want to make it clear that I'm not here to flame threads or start arguments. I'm not knocking Coach Rob or his son and I'm not trying to tick anyone off.

When I played you had to sell the charge. If you did not sell it or you were too far under the basket, then the ref would have called the blocking foul or he would have taken the whistle out of his mouth and told both players to get up.

In the league where I coach, that is definately a no call, but so is pushing somebody out of bounds. You get the point. I'm not here to talk about refs.

If you watch the videos again you will see two different techniques for taking charges. Coach Rob's son is standing straight up with his hands at his sides. It's hard to tell by the camera angle, but to me it doesn't look like he takes the contact straight on. The offensive player goes towards the basket, releases the ball, and brushes across the defenders chest with his backside just after he releases the ball.

The technique I learned was similar to the Sampson technique. Get to the spot, bend your knees, arms in front of you with elbows down and forarms parallel to your chest to cushion the blow. When contact is made, bend knees and fall flat on your back. It looks like your getting hit by a truck. Watch the Sampson video. It looks like they're getting hit hard. You can hear the crowd moaning in the background, but because they're using a safe technique, it doesn't hurt at all. It's actually fun. Of course the crowd doesn't know that.

What I would have liked to of seen Coach Rob's son do is get to the spot about six to eight inches further forward, get the contact earlier and straight on using the Sampson technique. I think that would have sold the refs and he would have gotten the call.

Like I said, I didn't post to flame the thread or irritate anyone. It was a great effort by Coach Rob's son, but it didn't sell. I think the technique needs work. If I had just posted, "Heck no, that's a charge." then Coach Rob goes on thinking that it was just a blown call and never sees any room for improvement. I was only trying to help. I hope Coach Rob doesn't take my comments the wrong way.

IF you watch that video again you will see the shooter turn his body giving you the illusion that the defender is NOT in the proper position - but he was.... don't forget that boy is 11 years old so his technique might not be perfect but it sure looked good to me.

His feet were standing on the free throw lane line which means he was out from the basket... as he started to take the charge his arms were in front of his body... yes, they went out as he hit the floor.

We will have to agree to disagree here..... he can play for me anytime...... I have seen high school players that couldn't do it any better than this boy did. You must have some tough refs in that league... pretty tough on 11 year olds.

Thanks for your point of view, Jim. Too much groupthink can be a bad thing.