What to do when you suspect age cheating?

I coach in a 10-11 league. There are two teams in our league that appear to be pushing the age boundary rule just a bit; one team has several players that you'd really have to stretch the imagination to say that their players are 11 (or just turned 12), as two of them are sporting fairly thick moustaches (no, I'm not kidding).

The other is the one that finally has me at my breaking point: they have two six-footers and a 5'9" player. Now, before you start saying that yes, growth spurts do happen, I should tell you that these aren't the lanky, rail-thin, players that I've seen in the past that shot up a foot the moment they hit puberty; if I were to guess, I'd say they have the build, agility, etc., of a sophomore in high school. It's really disgusting to be trying to say these are 11-year-olds. When I asked the coach about the age, he wouldn't answer the question except to point out that one was his son; it turns out that he has another son on the team, a much smaller son, so my operating theory is that he's coaching his younger son and has his older son along for the ride (he actually wasn't very good, but he's a full 8" taller than my tallest player, so it was still a blowout).

I've already contacted the league to make a complaint, as we're slated to play this team again in 3 weeks; they advised that, counter to what their web site says, they never request to see a birth certificate or any other age verification, it's all up to the coach's word.

Has anybody encountered this, and if so, were you able to find a way to overcome it? Any input would be appreciated.

Find out what grade he is in school. That would be a start. Does he play little league baseball? They have to present a Birth certificate.

Coach:

Wish I could...but the league won't even give out names. It's really THAT stupid of a situation. I've been told that it's on me to prove that he's NOT 10-11 years old, but they won't give me even the basics to verify things.

Is this an in-house rec league or a more competitive, travel type league?

Just my opinion.......if somebody wants to cheat like that, then that's on them. That coach has to live with his actions and go to sleep at night knowing what he's doing. When I sign up to coach, I undertake the responsibility to teach the team I end up with the fundamentals of the sport, the rules of the game and maybe some life lessons along the way. I also feel like I have a responsibility to make sure the kids on my team are safe.

Unless these older kids are so big and physically built that they are causing physical harm to my players in a manner that is not within the rules (let's not forget basketball is a contact sport) then I'm inclined to go about my business. I'm not there to police every single player on every single team, nor am I there to do that to the other "adults" who have volunteered to coach. I'll use the situation to motivate my team for the next time we play them.

And if I don't have pretty good proof that they are cheating, then I'm not going to raise a fuss about it.

Eventually these kids are going to get to high school sports and some of them may even play in college. They will be playing against older and bigger kids at that point.

Coachmt:

It's a bit of a hybrid league; we only play in North Phoenix, but we travel to different schools/gyms to play. It's not HIGHLY competitive, but it's still competitive with playoffs and a championship.

In the last game, two players did get tangled up: the 6' player, who I'd say is about 180-200lbs and one of my forwards, who is about 4'11", 75lbs. The 6' player landed right on top of her. She was okay, but yes, it is a concern.

My larger concern is what this is teaching my players. This is giving them a greater education than I can give them on the merits of cheating. Every statement I make about how we will play within the rules of the game and we'll be good sports is thrown completely out the door when they see this team win every game and the championship. It's teaching the exact opposite: in order to win, you have to ignore the rules. That's not what I want to teach these kids.

If the league won't cooperate, wrong league to play in. Easier said than done though as you may not have many options. I ran into this when I coached flag football all the time. They didn't have enough players to get enough teams some seasons, so they expanded the age group. Big mistake.

I think trying to mickey mouse around with "proving ages" on your own is a lost cause. If it were me, I'd find the league director and get a face to face with them. Tell them you're concerned about the safety of your players and it would be a shame to find out one of them got injured by a 12 or 13 yr old who shouldn't be playing in the league. Do the rules of the league mention the age groups?

If I was a parent and my 10/11 yr old was seriously injured and I suspected it was because the other team had 12/13/14 yr olds, you can bet I'd have a lawyer on that one in a heartbeat. Maybe you can present it that way to the league director? Aren't they afraid of someone coming back and suing them personally?

Garrett Murphy wrote:Coach:

Wish I could...but the league won't even give out names. It's really THAT stupid of a situation. I've been told that it's on me to prove that he's NOT 10-11 years old, but they won't give me even the basics to verify things.

Don't they have ti put his name in the scorebook?

I agree with Rob, IF You are pretty sure this kid is overage. its time to find a league or tourney that is run better.
You can only control what you and your kids do.... tell your kids and parents that we are going to play by the rules.

Garrett Murphy wrote:n the last game, two players did get tangled up: the 6' player, who I'd say is about 180-200lbs and one of my forwards, who is about 4'11", 75lbs. The 6' player landed right on top of her. She was okay, but yes, it is a concern.

Its been a long time since I have seen a kid that size at 11 years old. Keep your players safe, IF you have to, bail out of that tourney or league. I would conrront the director of this league / tourney and tell him about your concerns. Let him know in no uncertain terms that it is also his responsibility to make sure that all the kids are safe.... THIS IS A GAME... not the NBA!

Thank you for the input guys.

I think I'm going to need to try strong-arming the league coordinator a bit...I hadn't really thought about the damage these guys can do, but you're right, if one of my players takes a charge on a fast break, it could actually break something.

If nothing comes of it, I'll need to look at switching leagues next season...if this is what I can look forward to, I worry that these kids will lose interest in basketball because it's not fun to get get slaughtered by kids like this.

Garrett Murphy wrote:If nothing comes of it, I'll need to look at switching leagues next season...if this is what I can look forward to, I worry that these kids will lose interest in basketball because it's not fun to get get slaughtered by kids like this.

Losing is one thing.... getting hurt is a while nother story. As coaches its our jobs to do the best we can to prevent them from being injured.

Hello fellow coaches, thought I'd give an update here on what's transpired since that last post. I'm including a link to a Facebook "Note" that details things, along with links to videos from the game that just occurred: https://www.facebook.com/notes/garrett-murphy/nys-national-youth-sports-a-case-study-in-whats-wrong-with-youth-sports/10152381606164898

As a brief summary:
1) the league notified the coach of the team with the 6' players that I was the one who had complained about the age of his players (I'm suspecting that the coach and the league officials are well associated with one another)
2) it became clear as the game went on that he had specifically coached his players to hurt my players, particularly my daughter (her last name is on her jersey); throughout the game he could be heard telling his players to use their elbows, "break kneecaps" and "break ankles" (yes, I understand that this is also a euphemism for making a move that loses a defender...but throughout the game, his players could be observed kicking out at the back of players' legs)
3) the game pretty much ended with my daughter being picked up by one of the six-footers and being body-slammed to the court

I really wish I could say that I'm exaggerating, but I'm not, not by a long shot. We're abandoning the NYS leagues and moving to a local Boys & Girls Club for the summer season and we'll see what we want to do in the fall.

Best decision, get out of that league and find one that plays by the rules. IF for one moment I thought one of their players were playing to hurt one of mine intentionally, I would go the refs and tell them that its their responsibility to control the game and keep the kids from getting hurt... and if they don't I would walk off the floor.

There is NO place in sports for this type of behavior!!

Coach Sar: I agree wholeheartedly and am WAY ahead of you on that one. The fact that this type of behavior exists is disgusting on so many levels.

Garrett -

What really blows my mind is that they would stoop to that level with that age group. People like that have NO business working with kids. What are they teaching them? Certainly not to be upstanding citizens. Here is another thing that bothers me -- that the other parents would let their kids play for this guy and allow t hem to blantantly break the rules like that.

Well, I'm sure you've had the same sort of experience with parents as I have: a good-sized chunk of them aren't really there to see their child learn the sport, they're there because they want to have victories under their belt. I've met a few parents who, quite honestly, would rather have their child benched for an entire game...if it resulted in their child's team winning. Things are a little messed up right now with the reasons for parents to get their kids involved in sports. Heck, each season I've coached, there's been 1-2 kids who had zero interest in basketball, their parents just signed them up.

So, what are they teaching thier kids? I wonder how they would feel IF their kids kept lying to them??

What are they teaching them? Entirely the wrong things....

Those guys should be laying bricks instead of coaching kids. JMO

Coach: I wasn't going to reply to this post until I read it all....And,if this is all true, you need to consider "criminal Charges" against not only the league, but this particular coach. These are 11 and 12 year old girls and to have an opposing coach display these type of tactics is tantamount to thuggery. There is no room for this in youth basketball but it looks as if you gave up and relented to another league. This coach needs to be removed from the game period. As long as he is allowed and supported in his coaching philosophy, he will always be teaching that its ok to cheat as long as you win and this in the long run will hurt a lot o kids...Coach Mac