Working With Underdeveloped Players.

I'll try. We have a practice tonight. Crossing my fingers.
I'm going to also have a talk with my 5th graders. Ask them to take a leadership role on the court and help the other girls line up and understand where they need to be. Didn't have that in the first game. My one player who is vocal and understands had a cooking accident and wasn't able to play at all.

Revised our original practice schedule to this:

4 0 4 Warmup
2 4 6 Ball Handling/Maravich Drill
3 6 9 Figure 8 w/o Ball
4 9 13 1-on-1 passing
4 13 17 Star Passing
4 17 21 Cone Dribbling
4 21 25 Dribble Relay
5 25 30 Zig Zag: 1v1 Advancement w/Defend
4 30 34 Circle Box Out
5 34 39 Game of 21
5 39 44 Shell Drill
15 44 59 Motion Offense / Shooting.
25 59 84 Scrimmage
5 84 89 Inbound Plays in Scrimmage

You know, maybe this is a better question of what I really need help with.

I understand teaching the fundamentals of dribbling, passing, shooting, etc ... we do all that. Trying to at least.

How do you overcome them not even having a very general understanding of the game? Not ever even seeing a real game being played. And most of them don't have parents that know anything about it either and also haven't watched a real game before.

Is it thru scrimmages and the actual games? You just hope they eventually understand what it means when you have a red jersey on and the ref says "white ball, going that way"? Is that really the only way?

Is there anything else I can do for them in this area?

I have suggested to the parents to let them sit down and watch 15 or 20 minutes of a real game. College or high school, not pro. But I don't think any of them do.

Ahh, the life of a youth coach. It looks so easy on paper until you realize there's no draft to choose from and you get what you get. If you stick with coaching long enough, you'll see variations on this theme as you go along. In other words, there will always being some type of challenge that seems to throw a twist in your coaching plans. I dig the challenge of working with what I have and turning it into something it cool.

Going to a game was a good suggestion on your part. One thing you could do is see if there are a few games scheduled before your next game on the same court or same gym. You could ask the parents to arrive 30 min early so you could sit with your players and point things out happening on the court. Food for thought.

Unfortunately, there are no real shortcuts when it comes to grasping all the concepts and rules of a particular sport as a younger player. Experience is the best teacher and that comes with time. As a coach, you'll have to be patient as you repeat the concept for the umpteenth billionth time.

Breaking it down into smaller segments with the players who need more help is one way of teaching concepts and rules. 1v1, 2v2 type stuff. Also, make a big deal when you catch a player improving or catching a concept. Even the small stuff. Lots of encouragement here.

One thing I can tell you is usually a team never looks the same at the beginning of a season as they do towards the end. It always bums me out that the season is ending right when things seem to start cooking as a team.

Coach: Kids sitting down watching a game on tv or live, can be helpful but only if they truly understand the game. Watching a game you know nothing about is truly boring for them. Let me make a suggestion that I did with my Chinese kids, I had a session where I did nothing but explain rules. And I used videos to explain what I was trying to point out. Further, Movies, but good movies for example Hoosiers, Miracle, One on One, Finding Forester and one of my favorites for girls Gracie, its a soccer movie, but a good one. Movies such as I like Mike, Rebound, The Green Machine are sometimes entertaining, but have no basketball value, Give it a try coach, what do you have to lose? Coach Mac

I think most of it you just learn the rules by playing... scrimmages and games. Then learn during the game and then you will always get a couple things from the previous game to cover at next practice. It takes time. As an example, we have a kid in a game walk out of the FT lane after the shooter has the ball. That's a violation. So we briefly cover that rule at next practice and all the player tend to understand because they have a recent event to reference. They seem to retain by making those mistakes and learning from them.

I remember when I first starting coaching my daughters team... they would get upset because the ref called a foul on them, they would just start dribbling up the court on made baskets, and so on. I'll never forget at the end of one of our 3v3 full court games we invited in another team that was one year older. We must have lost by 90 points. At the end of the game one of the girls asked.... "Did we win?". She was totally serious. LOL.

They made so many mistakes along the way. Fast forward several years and their IQ is very high and they really know how to play the game!!!

"As an example, we have a kid in a game walk out of the FT lane after the shooter has the ball. That's a violation. So we briefly cover that rule at next practice and all the player tend to understand because they have a recent event to reference. They seem to retain by making those mistakes and learning from them."

Thank you for this. Hearing that you had this issue come up, with as much experience as you've had doing this, makes me feel a bit better. See if we had something small like that happen, I would take that as my fault. I forgot to show them how the FT works. Then I would be disappointed in myself.

"We must have lost by 90 points. At the end of the game one of the girls asked.... "Did we win?". She was totally serious. LOL.

They made so many mistakes along the way. Fast forward several years and their IQ is very high and they really know how to play the game!!!"

That's a great little story.

I wish I could have these girls for a few years like that. But being a City Rec League, it's parents coach, and first come first serve. This might be one year and done for me. They don't put any stock in the parent coach actually knowing anything at all about the game. They are just happy to get anyone to help out. It's kind of sad, as I was expecting and hoping for much more, considering this is a fairly nice suburb with plenty of schools with nice gym space.

"It looks so easy on paper until you realize there's no draft to choose from and you get what you get."

Well I don't think we ever thought it would be easy. I mean that's why I have spent so much time on this website and on Jeff's blog. I have almost memorized all of Jeff's blog by now.

In watching these girls last year, I was hoping for about the same talent level. Which was about average, They had two girls that were "stars". A bunch that were average or slightly below. Then only one first year player. That was my daughter. But I was able to get her up to at least almost average by season end. She was the only one on the team who was even lining up properly on D. And she was able to recognize the screen and sag back a bit to be ready for the ball coming around the screen. No one else on the team as able to do that, even the "stars". Offense, well the "stars" never passed her the ball. I can probably count on my hands how many times she touched the ball in the games. So I just told her to work hard on defense. That's how she could help her team that year.

I wasn't prepared for such a severe drop off in talent this year. And those first year players that I have, don't have a parent at home to provide for their daughter what I did for mine last year.

Coach: Last reply on this, I love listening to stories of some of the things kids do but in that, there is a valuable lesson. When I was a very young coach perhaps 100 years ago, I like you, I was coaching a YMCA team of girls. We had the same situation as Jeff had with a girl leaving the FT line after the ball had been handed to the shooter. During a time out, I attempted to explain the rule and the player asked me why are we just standing there while she shoots. I said, in case she misses we get the rebound. The girl nodded knowingly but as she was walking away she whispered to another player....Whats a rebound...it's at this point that I realized as a coach, you cannot take anything for granted, assume they know nothing and begin from there. Coach keep us posted on your season. I love the expression, its not where you are at the beginning that's important, , its where you are at the end. Coach mac

I had to laugh at your last post CoachMac. And thanks for conversation here. I'll definitely try to keep you guys updated.

So just last night in fact, I found myself asking almost after every sentence it seemed, "Do we all understand? Does anyone not understand? Don't be afraid to raise your hand. Because I guarantee you, you're not the only one with the question."

But I think I finally have a good handle on which girls those are now. So after I explain to the group, I can now go over to that group, kneel down to them, and talk it thru. I'm a big believer in the kneeling down to talk to these kids. Getting on their eye level. I'm only 6' foot tall. I say "only" because our other coach runs about 6'6". He played D2 college ball. Thought maybe that might be a bit intimidating for some of them.

By the way, we had a nice practice last night. The girls worked hard and were into it. Doesn't seem to be any feeling down about that first game. Which was great. Didn't get to everything on that list up there, but got to enough.

Unfortunately our team captain is still out with her foot injury. We'll call her "Yaz". But her mom seems to think she's a go for the Friday practice and Saturday game. Well she doesn't quite know she's captain yet, but I'll tell her on Friday. She's probably our best player. She's small, but handles the ball well, is vocal, and understands the game. Probably most important thou, everyone loves her and she's a nice girl. But at the same time, she's a little "bulldog" on the court.

When I talked to our 5th graders last night and asked them to be leaders out there, to help out the 4th graders. To look around at your teammates, make sure they are where they're supposed to be. I also mentioned I'd be asking Yaz, to be our team captain. They all agreed she would be best at it. That's probably something I should have done early on. We may have at least scored a point in the first game had I done that.

Couple more short stories I'd like to share about last year that explain why I wanted to study hard over the past 10 months and hopefully be a good coach for these girls this year. Then it's time for the couch for me.

One of the "stars" from last year and another player, came up to my daughter and told her, "You're the worst player on the team. Why are you out here. You should quit." This was very early on in the season. Not sure they had even played a game yet. Side note: later on in the year, after I showed my girl how to box out and be a little physical under the bucket. To be a rock under there and don't let them shove you around. (My girl is well above average size for her age, by the way. Decent height and weight. but slow feet.) So I told her next time in practice, you go get that girl, and do just what we've been doing. Yeah, the "star" didn't like being boxed out of the play like that, then wined and complained. Proud Dad.

The other is what happened in a different practice one night. I was watching as the "coach" played in the scrimmage with them. One of the players was all set to grab the rebound. Standing there, arms out, decent form, eyes on the ball, the "coach" reaches over her back and rips the ball out of her hands, dribbles the length of the court for a layup.

It was at that point I decided, yep, I've seen enough of this garbage, where is the best youth basketball coaching website. I found this site, Jeff's blog, and one or two others. Then studied, studied, studied ...

One other thing before I go to bed.

This might help someone who is having trouble getting the kids to learn the 5-out motion offense.

My daughter actually game up with it. She just started saying "Pass-Cut-Fill".

So in this last practice I had them saying it the entire time they were doing the 5v0 drill.

I think it's helping those 1st year girls I have.

Well game day this morning about to leave.

Hoping for a better outcome. In fact I'm sure of it. This team is more on our level. That first team we played had 5 or 6 girls that should be on the select teams.

We have been trying the 5-out offense. But the girls see the 5v0 drill as a game. They don't see it as something there are supposed to do in the game.

They go right back to standing there yelling towards the girl with the ball.

How to get them to understand that?

Play 4v4 or 5v5 half court in practice. You can give them rules to help get them moving. Some examples include:
- no dribble
- lay ups only until you make 5 passes
- lay ups only until you get two ball reversals
- 1 pt for every ball reversals (plus normal scoring)
- make it take it

Have them check the ball or play half court 3v3 rules (where you take the ball outside 3pt line after def rebounds and steals). Get out your whistle and freeze them when they don't run the offense. This is the best way to get them running the offense... just play half court and coach them to get them doing it correctly.

We'll try that, thanks Jeff.

How about time?

How long per practice do you spend on that?

How many practices does it take to get them at least somewhat understanding it?

One of the girls in practice this week, while setting up for the 5v0 drill, said "oh, I like this game. It's fun." I used that to say, "Yes it is fun. But it's not just a game, this is how we want you to set up and run our offense."

So had our 2nd game yesterday.

I may have overreacted to our first game. That team we played last week? Well, they won again by 50 points. That's not what this city rec league is about. Unfortunately I think we just have a team in the league this year with 5 or 6 girls who really should be in the select league. And that kind of stinks, because we only have 4 teams and are going to have to play them two more times.

On to our game. Much, much better. We lost, but a much more competitive game. It was close all the way thou. Some shots didn't fall for us late, while the other team made theirs. I think the score was 20-12, not sure thou.

They still don't run our 5-out offense. Defense needs to be tightened up of course. But feeling much better today.

Actually had the same story Jeff talked about a few posts back. One of my girls asked "Did we win?" :)

One other thing that's bothering me on the defensive side.

I still have a few girls who want to stand in front of their girl on defense, out away from the basket, where these girls can't shoot from of course.

I tell them, and tell them, and tell them, "Back to the basket and between your girl and the basket." We demonstrate to them what's going to happen when they do that. Backdoor cut and a basket for the other team. We talk about "our home" (the lane) "protecting our home". "Try to keep your girl away from our home."

We talk about not guarding your girl way out there at half court. Eventually yeah maybe we'll let them pressure the ball out there. We do have a few who can do that now already. And I don't correct those girls.

We talk about sprinting back on D, starting in our home, then spread out and find your girl.

We usually run the shell drill, they seem to get it during that drill. But then it's right back to standing in front of their girl.

Do you think it's because they don't think they can let their girl catch a pass at all? I've thought of explaining that part to them. That it's okay to let your girl catch a pass way out away from the basket.

For your question about how much time we spend on 5v5 half court and your question about defense...

I think my advice is the same. You need to know in your mind what your objectives are. What should the offense and defense look like in the short term?

Then you have to figure out how to get them there. That might mean 5 straight practices of 5v5 half court the entire time. Or it might mean 5 minutes per practice.

Every drill has an objective and purpose -- trying to make improvements in certain area(s). Often times we have to adjust drills or improvise on the fly to get players doing what we want.

Then there is always a next step. Sometimes we get to the next step very quick and other times it takes all season long. Sometimes we take steps backwards and realize players forgot how to do something pivot and protect... so we might revisit that concept again.

Here's another way to think about things...

In reality, the first thing you should do is play 1v1, 3v3, and then normal games before you do any drills, coaching, or development, Then you determine what players need to work on... instead of you just doing drills because you think they need to work on certain things.

Maybe the players are already great at moving their feet and I don't need to even address that. Or maybe they are great at pivoting. Why spend time on it if they already know how to do it?

I realize that adjusting on the fly takes some experience. But ultimately I think good coaches see a team play. Then they run drills to help them improve in the appropriate areas. Then as they play more games, you constantly adjust your practices and drills so they teams and players keep improving.

I don't know if this helps any. But those are the thoughts that come to mind when I read those questions.

Right now we probably spend 20 minutes in each practice playing have court 5v5 really focusing on defense and motion offense. That is what seems right for our team. Might not be right for your team.

Last thing. Later in my coaching career I became more objective based. In other words, I would just give players objectives. Then we all work together to meet those objectives and I teach as needed (usually got creative) to figure out how to meet those objectives. For example, on defense we drew lines and said we wanted to keep the ball out of the extended lane area. Step one is not let the player with the ball dribble by you. That is a lower level objective. Somtimes that is all I need to say and players figure it out. Other times we have to get detailed and show them a good stance, help them move feet more efficient. But whenever possible I try to keep it simple by giving objectives.

If a player was doing something that didn't make sense like stick right on their players when defending one pass away... I might ask "what is our defensive goal?"/ Keep the ball out of the paint. So why are you standing there? Wait for response. Can the player you are standing next to get the ball into the lane? Where could you go to help make sure the ball doesn't get into the lane?

Also, I teach players to always pressure the ball once it crosses half court. I think ball pressure is important and being great at rotating to the ball is important. I always want someone up ion the ball every second finding out what the player they are guarding had for breakfast, lunch, and dinner!!! How will they ever shoot if you can do that?

"I don't know if this helps any. But those are the thoughts that come to mind when I read those questions."

No, that helps tremendously. Completely understand what you said. Thanks. Will keep trying.

We do let the girls pressure out at half court who can. We have only 3 or 4 of them. Most simply don't have the foot speed yet. Like my daughter. She will get beat every time. So with her, we've talked about it a lot. How she can give the girl enough room out beyond the 3-point line so she has enough time to stop her when she tries to get to the basket.

I told her the way she can help her team is to play great help D in the paint. Which she does better than anyone on our team.

Once again, last reply, really....my comment, you are in a four team league, with one team that totally dominates the others by an average of 50 points. I can see why your league was desperate to get any team in so it could become at least competitive. However, with that being said how competitive can one be knowing they are playing for second, third or fourth place. Not to dampen your spirits, but you are NOT going to beat this team even if you play them 10 times so my recommendation is the following: Set goals for the next time you play this good team. Let the girls (with your guidance), set their own goals. Individual defense goal, to completely shut my check down. Team goals, allow only so many easy baskets, goal control your own backboards. Goal get at least 2 steals, goal: limit your turnovers. Giving your team something to shoot for in the wake of a horrible defeat lessens the pain of the loss. If they accomplish only 50% of the goals, insure you point those out, do not dwell on the score instead, give lots of warm fuzies to those that accomplished all their goals. trust me....it will help...Coach Mac