What's Wrong With Youth Basketball Leagues

Re: Your Equal playing time rule. This is an excerpt from our manual - "Coaching Youth Basketball With Faith and Fundamentals"

Mike Kayes - Stewards of the Game

The most powerful reward or motivational tool a coach has is the control over playing time. Stewards of the Game believes strongly that playing time should be a function of level of effort during practice, first and foremost. Next comes overall attitude, respect, and commitment to team play. The third determinant of playing time is ability.

An important life lesson we are trying to teach is that success demands hard work. If a player is getting more playing time than you are because he is working harder then you can either accept it or decide to work harder yourself. If playing time is going to be equal there is a disincentive to work harder. In our experience, there are usually one or two players who work the hardest and one or two players who are chronically late for practice, miss altogether, or who aren’t really in to it. Equal playing time, while trying to strengthen the weak, is more successful in weakening the strong.

Another important life lesson relates to learning to be an unselfish team player. When on the bench, players have two attitudinal choices – they can think about themselves or they can think about their teammates. In other words they can complain about not being in the game and secretly wish their teammates will fail, or they can encourage and cheer for their teammates. In essence, we define “team” in this manner – In every thought and every action, a team must encourage strengths and compensate weaknesses, while deriving personal satisfaction, first and foremost, from the success of other teammates. Moreover, there may be no greater opportunity to show Christian humility and sportsmanship then by learning to feel as happy about a teammate’s success as your own.

If another player is playing more than you are because he is better then work hard to improve. We are giving youth an unrealistic message when we completely discount ability as an input into making playing time decisions. In the real world, ability matters a lot. Nevertheless, ability should be the third determinant of playing time, not the first.

A prerequisite for any team to be successful is that every individual willingly accepts his role and strives to contribute in that role to the best of his ability. Some players will be scorers, some rebounders, some defenders and so on. Others may play support roles, which require them to give their best effort in practice to help their teammates or to offer encouragement from the bench during games. Accepting roles is a critical element of every healthy family, winning basketball team or successful business. By encouraging this process we can reinforce the life lessons of teamwork, trust and helping others.

Additionally, there are game situations that present better opportunities to succeed for certain players. The goal, again, is to help each player become the best he is capable of becoming. If all a player can do is throw a great full court baseball pass then he should be given that opportunity on the last play of the game whether it is his “time” to play or not. Similarly, the tallest player might be substituted to guard the in-bounds passer on the last play.

I have witnessed first hand how a team leader can emerge when a player accepts the responsibility to help his teammates improve. One great way this is done is by letting the players on the court be responsible for defensive match-ups. Players also get the chance to build and experience teamwork. For example, a player might want to guard his friend who is the leading scorer on the other team, but realizes that a teammate is a better defender, so he lets his teammate guard him. Lastly, making adjustments after substitutions promotes quick thinking and team communication. It is challenging, but a great growth opportunity for the players to learn to deal with and overcome adversity – another important life lesson of Stewards of the Game.

This is not just a Basketball issue, I have seen these exact same questions in Minor Hockey programs and I see it in our organizations development and competitive programs.

This year our areas team presidents thought a good idea would be to introduce "equal play" rules for the competitive U14 program (previously we did this in U12 and below). I agree with the previous comment, that this can be a terrible "negative" motivator for kids, and wish the presidents had instead instituted a "No Zone" rule for U14 instead (girls program they are just not strong enough to be outside shooters yet).

Interesting discussion, but remember this is not a basketball only issue.

aw

Mike & Big Cajun Man,

I agree with your statements. However, notice that I said "FAIRLY equal playing time" for the 12 to 14 year old league. I guess this is up for interpretation. I believe at this age the kids should start to take more responsibility for their work ethic and attitude. If my numbers were at about 8 to 10 players, I made sure that everybody played at least a third of the game.

I also tried to schedule an extra 10 minute quarter where the clock was turned off, so the players who did not get as much playing time as the others got to play.

And Cajun Man, I agree that this is not just a basketball issue.


Mike,

Those are excellent and very well written. Thank you for sharing. I have a few questions for you and points to consider:

- In your opinion, what age level do you think these concepts apply? It seems like 5-10 year olds might have a little trouble grasping and learning these concepts. They just want to play and have fun. Do you think 5-10 year olds are ready for "roles".

- How much playing time do you give based on ability? How do you give late bloomers a chance to develop? I have personally seen MANY kids that just needed some experience and time on the court to really blossom.

I think your point is very valid and the life lessons you mention are very important. I completely agree that kids needs to learn about responsibility and roles in their life. In my mind, the big question is when do you teach those lessons? And how do you get all kids opportunities to develop into good basketball players? Let me know what you think.

And what about the players that have bad family lives? What if not playing them will make them quit basketball and any chance we have of helping them is gone? What about the players that arrive late and it is the parent's fault?

These are some tough situations we all face as coaches and I don't know if there is a clear right or wrong way to approach them.

My daughter and son have been playing 3 on 3 tourneys for years now. It has helped so much. The 3 girls that play on her team can really pass the ball, know where her teammates are, see the open girl, rebound great, game and ball awareness. I would recommend 3 on 3 to any young child.

Of course, make it fun!!!!

I also have problems during softball season with ''''equal playing'''' time. I am a firm believer in equal playing time. If a child does not get playing time they can not develop. It is not our right as youth coaches to make the decision who will be the players in high school. I have trouble with parents who think their child needs to play all the time because they are better. It is so frustrating because what it is teaching their child is "me me me".

Thank you for your great articles!!!

I coach my team as all equel when it comes to games i use a merit system u practice and play hard u play more, I do stress perfection and i let every player have there chance it makes the weaker players mature quicker, they dont want to look bad so they all perform at a higher level and it makes it fun last weekend we won are first championship of are young season 7 more to come we play in nationally ranked tournaments ive seen great improvement in a short time u have to keep your program short fun nd simple you can loose interest easy with youth u have to keep your drills and practices fun but stress play hard. Coach Baker Lightning travel team wis

In my years of coaching, THE most important aspect of success in ensuring kids have a positive experience is matching the age of the children to the height of the rim.

Since we moved to the west coast, I cannot tell you how disappointing it is to see so many winter leagues, summer leagues, summer camps etc teaching all the kids on 10 foot rims. It is next to impossible for any child under 10 to learn proper shooting form, let alone score by simply heaving the ball, on a 10 foot rim. I would even go so far as to say any child under 12 should be on a lower rim (even if it is only 9'5").

We decided to "match" the ages to the rim (6 under=7', 7-8=8' 9-11=9'). I cannot tell you how exciting it is for parents and kids to see scores for "under 6s" in the upper 30s (ie-39-35 as opposed to 8-6) as EVERY child can shoot on the rim.

We even redrill the variable height baskets to accommodate younger kids (ie-height range from 6.5 to 9 feet).

Joe, thanks for your emphasis on the issue of age, I would like to think that my inputs to you a few years back were a catalyst to you creating the "youth" section in your newsletter. Far too much emphasis is placed on winning in youth sports, this year i coached a 5th grade girls team(10 and 11 year olds), i had 10 girls on the team, 5 of them had never played before and may not play again, since 6th grade middle school will have to "try out" to make the team. I emphasized fun and learning for the girls and created two equal squads and rotated them every half quarter, the girls all got equal playing time, had fun and learned the game, and as a team placed 3rd out of 14 teams(not to shabby). bottom line is, the stars are gonna be stars no matter how much time they get, the late bloomers will never develop sitting on the bench, and with only 2 hours of practice time a week, i think playing time is a must!!! there are two types of coaches, ones that teach and ones that need to win, more emphasis needs to be put on placing the coaches in the right roles, not the kids!

In Engalnd one of our most important books on Mini-Basketball was written by Dr Martin Lee in 1998. At this time Martin was Director of the Institute for the Study of Children in Sport. The book is called Coaching Children in Mini-Basketball; An introductory course in coaching principles. The book was commissioned by FIBA Mini-Basketball which at that time was a separate committee. There is now an overall Youth Committee. Mini-Basketball is the general term for basketball for children under 12.

The book is in fact a course with units of information and some exercises to do to prepare new Mini-Basketball coaches.The units help the coach to:
Be clear about what they are trying to achieve, what children need and want, and to match their needs with coaching goals.
Understand the things that make children different from adults-their physical & psychological growth and developmental patterns-how they learn skills and how this knowledge improves coaching.
Understand what competition cam mean for children and how it can be organised. Understand what things cause stress and reduce enjoyment for young athletes
Create a happy and productive coaching environment for young players.
Involve parents more effectively.

Martin's section on compeition suggests that to meet the needs of children we devise competitons where:
All of them may experience a degree of success at their own level.
They can test their skill against their own standards.
They can be part of a team
They can learn to compare themselves against other players and teams without feeling that they are failures- i.e. they take a positive experience with them.
Recognise all players for their efforts and improvement they have made.
Children should not lose and then have to leave the competition early-
keep them involved in the action.
All children play equally.
All children should make a contribution and no team members should feel left out. Teams should be evenly balanced.
Work carefully to select teams that play against each other are equally balanced.

How is this done?
Well FIBA Mini-Basketball rules suggest that each child in a team of 10 plays 2 of the 4 quarters. The coaches work together to balance the teams on court. A Festival style is recommended where lots of games are played with no ranking of teams. if you need to give an award make it a fairplay award.
It is true to say that throughout Europe there are still many tournaments played in 'world cup' style with pools and the adults love awarding trophies.

After a tournament in Slavakia, the organiser who also liked to give life lessons to children, awarded a cake to each team. The team that came 6th had the smallest and the winners had a huge cake..all brought out with a relish by the catering staff. However it was great to see the children cutting up and handing the cake equally to everybody!!!
Job Done!

Ridiculous to park a kid on the bench at age 12, unless it's for the coach's ego. With 9 players, everybody who comes to practice regularly with a positive attitude plays two quarters, even if they're not skilled; we don't expect them to specialize in basketball yet. Participation is the priority. If you've got more than 10 kids, make trades with neighboring teams or schools, or recruit some newbies and split into two clubs.

the equal or fair play time should be a rule for school and youth programs. i couldnt agree more, my daughter is an 8th grader and this year she was in with the top 8 as far as skills but wasnt in the starting 5 ( no big deal ) but those 8 all had the same skill level. there were games that only the starting 5 played the whole game and they never subed once. most games they would sub the top 8 and never let the bottom 4 play. there were rare games where the would put the bottom 4 in all together at the last two min. of a game. the starting five that played would make ten times the mistakes as the other girls that would be put in but as soon as they would even stumble once they would get pulled. i cant help to wonder if it wasnt the fact that the starters dads keep team stat and the time clock, and had a membership to the same country club as the coach. if they are going to have 12 kids on a team the should all play in every game if your only going to play 5 then only have 5 on your team. but the coach and athletic directer were so proud we didnt loose a game this season. when thay won the championship and the 5 girls that played were celibrating, and ask my dayghter why she wasnt, she told them because she didnt do anything and didnt feel like she was apart of the victory.fortinatly shes not giving up and continues to work hard and train for next year.

but instead of everybody just thinking its a good idea for equal play time what can we do to have some rules mandated for that?

I coach a 5/6 grade girls' travel team. Our organization does also have a "house league" for girls who want to play but do not want to be as committed as travel demands. The travel team players are required to play in the house league. I am curious to hear what other coaches think of the equal play time and less emphasis on winning for a travel team. Our travel team plays in a county league and plays many tournaments in the league and region. The league rules require all players on the team to play in each game (no time requirement). They also allow full court press for the 1/2 half of the game and zone defenses are allowed. Our team plays only man to man but I have to spend a small amount of my practice time placing a zone in so the offense understands how to play against it. I agree wholeheartedly that the emphasis at this age should be on fundamentals. I would like to present an agrument to the league for next year and would love to get others view points especially about full court press and zone defenses in youth games.

SHOULD CHILDREN IN YOUTH LEAGUES BE INSTRUCTED TO INTENTIONALLY FOUL THEIR OPPONENTS?
My 11 year old son recently played in a CYO basketball game in which his team was trailing by more than 20 points with less than three minutes to go. The head coach called time out and instructed the kids to begin intentionally fouling. They needed to foul at least 4 times just to put the other team in the one-on-one situation. In addition, under CYO rules, the clock did not stop with each foul, because the other team was ahead by so much. Thus, even if this had been a college game, there would have been no “strategic” advantage to fouling.

The CYO rules are based on the National Federation of High School Rules and specifically prohibit intentional fouling to stop the clock, with the penalty being two foul shots and loss of possession. The league has also adopted the High School Coach’s Code of Ethics, which specifically prohibit coaches from attempting to circumvent the rules. However, the referees do not always call intentional fouls, particularly if the player pretends to go for the ball, while actually intending to strike the other player.

Unfortunately for my son, he was guarding the player on the other team with the ball and pursuant to his head coach’s instructions he intentionally fouled that player three times in less than thirty seconds. As the head coach’s instructions to my son were contrary to everything my wife and I had attempted to teach him about good sportsmanship since he first became interested in basketball, watching him engage in such behavior literally made me feel ill inside.

With respect to my son’s own feelings as to what transpired during that game, I asked him on the way home what he thought about being asked to foul people on purpose. His first response was one word: “bad.” I then asked him why he thought it was “bad.” He told me he thought it was “bad” because he “did not want the referees to think that he was a bad kid and make calls against him in other games.” I also asked my son why he went ahead and fouled, if he thought it was “bad.” He said that he “did not want to let the team down, or have his teammates yell at him for not following the coach’s instructions.”

I had never heard of 10 and 11 year old children being instructed to intentionally foul under any circumstances, let alone when trailing by more than 20 points. On the day of the game, the head coach told me it was not an intentional foul if the player makes an attempt for the ball. However, the head coach did not instruct my son to actually go for the ball, but to intentionally foul, and to foul “hard.”

About a week after the game, my wife and I invited the head coach to our home, to ask him whether he had any “strategic” reason, or other justification, for his decision to have the kids intentionally foul. He conceded that there was no “strategic” reason for his decision. However, he attempted to justify his action by stating that he believed that the other team was attempting to run up the score earlier in the game, although he also conceded that the other team was attempting to run out the clock toward the end of the game.

My wife and I then asked the head coach if he would promise not to instruct our son to intentionally foul other children in the future. He would not make such a commitment to us. To the contrary, he said be believed intentional fouling had become a part of the game and that he now intends to begin teaching the kids how to intentionally foul during practice, so the intentional fouling will not be detected by the refs. However, some of these kids can barely catch and dribble, and others are not strong enough to shoot a free throw without jumping over the foul line.

My wife and I have decided that we do not want our son to play basketball under these circumstances. Accordingly, we have told our son that he can no longer play for that coach, meaning our son can no longer play on his school team. As our son is a fairly skilled player, we have made arrangements for him to play on another team, that is not affiliated with his school. We believe we have made the right decision for our son. However, we would like to obtain the opinion of other parents and youth coaches with respect to the following questions:

1. SHOULD 10 AND 11 YEAR OLD BOYS BE TAUGHT TO INTENTIONALLY FOUL, OR CIRCUMVENT ANY OTHER RULES OF THE GAME?
2. DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILD TO INTENTIONALLY FOUL OTHER CHILDREN?
3. DO YOU WANT OTHER CHILDREN TO INTENTIONALLY FOUL YOUR CHILD?

Let's make a clear distinction here between the basic learning leagues and the competitive leagues, your basic league which advertises the player will get a certain amount of playing time but usually doesn't because of the coaches ego's about winning or letting their kids be the star are the real problem, whether it be basketball or any sport, the leagues need to strongly enforce the policies, i realize that these are usually volunteer positions but there has to be some policy enforcement. As far as competitive teams, as long as the players/parents realize what they're signing up for and the teams are kept at 6-8 players, i have no real issue with equal playing time. But there must be a team/league available to all the kids to learn and to grow, remember in YOUTH sports it has to be "all about the kids"!!!

Anthony,

I'll give you my opinion on your questions:

1. SHOULD 10 AND 11 YEAR OLD BOYS BE TAUGHT TO INTENTIONALLY FOUL, OR CIRCUMVENT ANY OTHER RULES OF THE GAME?

Personally, I think it's a waste to practice time to teach that in practice. There are better things to teach 10 and 11 year olds. But I can understand why coaches teach it and their desire to win. Been there. In reality, it should not take long to teach a player how to foul. It's just takes a few minutes to show the technique. As long as they spend a few minutes on it, I don't see it as a big deal.


2. DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILD TO INTENTIONALLY FOUL OTHER CHILDREN?

In certain situations, that is how the game is played. I don't have a problem with kids intentionally fouling in a close game to get the ball back. But it has to be done the RIGHT way. It should NOT be malicious and you need to be careful to foul at a time when they player will not get hurt. If you do foul in games, you do need to teach players how to do it the right away. And instruct players when do it.

If the coach had a "brain fart" and didn't realize they had fouls to give, I could see why he wanted players to foul. And if he was inexperienced, maybe he didn't realize it was impossible to make a come back.

I would not crucify a coach just for this action, especially if they are inexperienced. I would base my opinion on other things. Does the coach teach good teamwork? Does the coach teach fundamentals? Does the coach teach life lessons? Does the coach set a good example in other areas? Does the coach make things fun for the players?

There is no such thing as a perfect coach. And we have all made mistakes, especially in the heat of a game. I would base my decision on the coach as a whole.

3. DO YOU WANT OTHER CHILDREN TO INTENTIONALLY FOUL YOUR CHILD?

Not on a fast break lay up. But after inbounding the ball, I don't mind a clean foul. That is how the game is played. Is a good thing? No. I just think there are more important things to worry about. Just my opinion.

Hi Diane,

We have a lengthy debate on full court pressing & zones at the youth level. Use this link to visit the page: http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/defense/age.html

Jeff:
Thank you for your response on the subject of intentional fouling. I understand that intentionally fouling has become a “part of the game” at the college level and even at some high schools. However, here we are talking about 10 and 11 year old kids in a CYO league, some of who can barely catch a ball or pass.

My son’s head coach has been coaching CYO for many years. In practice, he also teaches the kids to push off to get open, and tells them to continue pushing off until they are called for it “at least twice.” He has also instructed the kids that if someone pushes you, you should push back.

I played organized basketball for many years, including three years of Varsity Basketball in high school in a major urban area. My high school coach was a former college all-American and played briefly in the ABA. Two of my basketball coaches have been inducted into our local area “hall of fame,” and had more than 50 years of coaching experience between them. Not one of my basketball coaches ever instructed me to intentionally foul. (I did have a high school baseball coach who instructed us to throw at the heads of opposing batters, which although “part of the game,” I would not do, because I believed it was wrong).

My 11 year old son has also played on two very competitive AAU teams during the past year. One of those teams won two league championships in our area, a tri-state AAU tournament, and placed second in our state tournament last year. Neither of those coaches teach their 10 and 11 year old players to intentionally foul. In addition, I recently posted this same question on the “message board” on the sports page at CBS.com. Although the respondents were avid basketball fans from all over the United States, the majority of them agreed that 10 or 11 was too young to be instructing kids to intentionally foul, some citing examples of kids being put in danger of being hurt, or noting the potential for developing bad habits later in life.

I have also been an attorney for almost 25 years. In our state, the case law indicates that parents, coaches and schools can be held liable for intentional injuries caused by student basketball players. This is particularly true if a parent or coach instructs the child to intentionally make contact with another child.

Finally, and perhaps most important to me, the Coaches Code of Ethics in the National Federation of High School Basketball Rules specifically states “the Coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.” Rule 4-19-3 defines an intentional foul as “contact . . . when not making a legitimate attempt to play the ball . . . specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting.”

In my opinion, any attempt to instruct a player to “pretend” to go for the ball, when actually going for the arm or body of the opponent, is an attempt to circumvent Rule 4-19-3, and therefore in violation of the Coaches Code of Ethics, by definition. Of course, it is for that reason that most coaches do not yell out “foul” to their players, but call time out or use some other signal to initiate intentional fouling, so as to keep their true intentions hidden from the referee.

In my opinion, it is no excuse to say that “everyone does it,” as that excuse does not work in any other part of our society. Accordingly, in our family, we will continue to teach our son that intentionally fouling or pushing other players to obtain an advantage is against the rules. Rather than circumventing the rules, we will teach him to play clean, aggressive basketball, in accordance with the letter and the spirit of the rules. See also Rules 10-6-1 and 10-6-2 [“A player shall not . . . push . . . A player shall not use his/her hands on an opponent in any way that inhibits the freedom of movement of the opponent or acts as an aid to a player in stopping or starting.”]

In conclusion, my son and I have enjoyed your articles in the past and have used some of your drills and techniques while playing together. As a relatively frequent visitor to your cite, I must also note that you have repeatedly stated that coaches should not use zone, pressing or trapping defenses at the beginning levels, because it takes advantage of the inability of inexperienced players and demonstrates an over-emphasis on winning. In my opinion, it would appear somewhat inconsistent to be opposed to “legal” tactics such as “zone defense” and “pressing,” but to support intentional fouling by 10 and 11 year olds, which is clearly against the rules, even though some referees allow it to occur.

Again, regardless of what everyone else is doing, in our family we teach our children that playing by the rules is more important than winning. As a result, we are very comfortable with our decision not to allow our son to play for a coach who, after be given more than a week to reflect on the issue, decides that he would rather lose a player that forfeit his “right” to instruct players to intentionally foul and push off in a 5th grade game.

Anthony,

I don't think the issue here is really whether "intentional fouls" is right or wrong. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. The only thing that matters is the development of your son and other players.

Bottom line. Is the coach good or not? Forget the intentional foul for a moment. Is the coach developing your child for the better? Is the coach preparing your son for the real world and making a positive impact? Or is there a coach/team that will CLEARLY do a better job?

Some times the grass just looks greener on the other side of the fence. I don't know the situation, so maybe it is for your son.

Unless you start coaching your son, you will never find a coach that does everything you agree with. However, sometimes you run into things that are completely unacceptable. It your job to figure that out and I give you props for getting other opinions.

I simply suggest evaluating the whole basketball experience. Maybe you have done that but I couldn't tell from the post above. It just sounded like you are only worried about whether the intentional foul is right or wrong.

I don't think the fouling rules are relevant to the big picture of things. Technically, you are probably right. But what's best for the kid? That's all that's important.

BTW, I never said that I support intentional fouls. I just said there are more important things to worry about. Intentional fouls are such a small piece of the game and I just want what is best for the kids. Sometimes you have to pick your battles to be effective, and that battle is not high on my radar. There are much bigger problems out there. That's why I didn't make a big deal of it.

I wish you the best of luck and hope that every thing turns out positive for everyone involved. As always, if you have other questions, let us know. I will give my honest and blunt opinion.

Also, just to be clear. I am wholeheartedly against malicious “intentional fouls.” The intent is never to injure. And as a coach, I never ask young kids to intentionally foul. And I certainly wouldn't teach young kids how to foul during practice. I can barely find enough time to teach fundamentals, let alone fouling.

Jeff:

Thanks again for your response. For what it is worth, our son is the leading scorer and most skilled player on his team and one of the four or five most skilled players in his league. However, as we realize that 99.99% of youth basketball players do not make it to the NBA, we are more concerned with developing our son’s ethics than his jump shot. Thus, from a developmental point of view, we believe that learning to play by the rules is more important than winning.

Just as we would not expect one of our son’s teachers to instruct him how to cheat on a test, we do not expect his coaches to teach him how to violate the rules of the game. In fact, it is the failure of tens of thousands of lenders, borrowers, brokers, appraisers, accountants and lawyers to follow the rules that has probably caused much of the economic turmoil confronting most Americans today.

Again, for what is worth, I have coached my son in the past and I will probably coach him in the future. Because I personally believe that playing by the rules is more important than winning, I will continue to coach him and his teammates to play by rules. In so doing, I sincerely believe that I will provide my son with the best opportunity to develop as a basketball player, but more important, as a person.

Finally, as a former player myself, I generally respect all decisions made by the head coach, even if I disagree with them. For that reason, I have never before complained or even discussed any decision by any of my children's coaches, be it in basketball, baseball, soccer or swimming. By the same token, I never before heard one of my children’s coaches instruct my children to intentionally violate any rule, but especially under these circumstances, when the team was trailing by more than twenty points with less than three minutes to go. As such conduct so clearly reflects poor sportsmanship, I firmly believe it is my duty as a parent to do something about it.

I just finished our last practice with a team of ten 8 & 9 year olds. It was my first year as coach. What an experience. The adults tend to be the problem, not the kids. Even I had to resist the impulse to sub in better players. We didn't win a lot. Most teams had two dominant players who did everything and they won a lot of games. My team usually had 7-8 players taking shots. The last 3 weeks I divided them up into 2 squads -- the listeners and the non-listeners. The listeners really came together and started to gel. Tonight, they ran our dummy offense drill completely unattended -- mixing up the screens and cuts as they saw fit. It was awesome. Unfortunately the other squad was more like the keystone cops. They need a lot of work. Better luck next year.

When you are playing on a traveling team and every other team that you play in tournaments play to win do you still play all kids with equal play time or should you also play to win?

Hi Coach,

My thoughts are that any teams under the varsity level, you coach to develop players. Teams 14 and under, I think you want to keep the playing time fairly equal, because this is what's best for the kids LONG-TERM.

Coach to develop. Players play to win.

One more thing, you always coach to develop players. However, there is a certain time (I believe the varsity level) that you play kids to win the games.

As well as coaching a pro team this year in Hong Kong, this year I also coached a girls high school varsity team..every game we played and I mean every one..we faced a 2-3 zone...we, of course, play man to man. this told me that the coaches have no idea how to teach man to man or they are simply just lazy..my team went 26-0..

Having coached youth sports for longer than I care to admit, I feel I have to comment on the "equal" playing time issue. When the players are younger, say pre-K through 3rd grade my players recieve roughly equal playing time-within reason. However, as the players mature and develop, playing time is used as a reward for hard work and dedication. If one were to give equal playing time to an individual who shows up late to practice if at all, never works on their game out of the gym, and doesn't apply themselves while in the gym is unfair to those who work hard and dedicate themselves to the team and getting better. It serves little purpose to give PT to a player who shows little interest in helping the team achieve it's goals (which are, by the way, developed by the players themselves in an inner circle meeting). We currently have several teams. One team is made up of kids who are the hard chargers. They are in the gym every week, work hard and spend considerable time out of the gym working on their game. We also have a squad of kids who have other activities and interests that preclude them from devoting the time that being on the "A" team requires. These players are at a different level both in their skill level and their dedication to their game and to the team. We also have a team of kids who play for fun and recreation. There are several leagues in our area and we place these teams in the appropriate league. Our top teams play in AAU and our rec team plays in the local Y league. In this way, the kids can play at a level that suits their level on interest and ability and thus their is little or no stress on the players to live up to a demanding coach who wishes the player would put more time or effort into their game or team. This method places players of equal ability on the same team(s). I have found that if one were to put a B or C player on an A team, the B or C player never sees the ball because the A team players fear that the lesser player will screw up in a crutial situation and cost them the game. This places less peer pressure on the less motivated player and helps retain team unity. Nobody is playing for themselves, but playing for their teammates. Also, we find that sometimes players find that they cannot devote the time to our "A" team and they decide to drop back to the B team or even our Y ball team. We keep the kids in the gym, never cut a player, and have had a substantial retention rate. Conversly it also affords those players who have decided commit more time and energy to the game and the team to move up to a higher level team. This system had worked very well for the 33+ basketball teams I have coached over the years, and, these teams always do well at their level of competition because too much is never asked of a player or team.

I coach at a boys and girls club.Right now I coach teh high school level kids .I try to give equal playing time but I do hear complaints from the kids who come out of the game.There is a playoff at the end of the season so there is something to play for.I do see other coaches yelling at the kids but that's not my style of coaching.I try to instruct while the game is going on.But, how do you handle the kids who come off the court and complain because they are better than the kids going in the game?I hear them complain when the kids that aren't as good miss a shot or lose the ball.I feel the negativity hurts the team and the players play for themselves rather than the team.Any suggestions?

Playoffs or no playoffs, youth basketball should be fun. I'm actually not a fan of playoffs, because coaches get caught up in the playoffs and that's when poor coaching is often displayed by an untrained coach. They are so worried about winning the game that they resort to yelling, unequal playing time, and tons of other terrible youth coaching tactics.

As for the kids that complain about equal playing time, I would think it would be a key moment to teach the important lessons of being a good teammate and teamwork.

Being a good teammate is always cheering from the bench and encouraging your teammates to do better. If a player does not do this, it can affect team chemistry. At the higher levels, this can lead to benching of the player that display this poor attitude.

Ask the child:

How would you feel if somebody said negative things whenever you went on the basketball court?

Do you think it would make your play better by hearing those negative things?

If you want to help the team win, shouldn't you be supporting your teammates?

Ask him to help the other players.

Tell him to watch Joakim Noah of the Chicago Bulls. That guy is always the first guy off the bench to congratulate and cheer on his teammates.

When these kids go out in the real world, they can't insult their co-workers, they have to learn how to support and help others, even if they are not as skilled. This would be an important time to show those players how to be a good teammate.

Hi Dennis,

I’m glad you brought up these points. These thoughts are on the mind of many youth coaches. However, I respectfully disagree. To be honest, I’ve done some of the same things you mention below in my first year of coaching youth basketball players.

After spending countless hours studying products of experts such as Don Kelbick, Bob Bigelow (former NBA player), Brian McCormick, Mike Boyle, Brian Grasso, Tudor Bompa, Josef Drabik, Lee Taft, and many more, I’ve completely changed my philosophy.

I have responded to your comments below.

“When the players are younger, say pre-K through 3rd grade my players recieve roughly equal playing time-within reason.”

How can you not play them exactly equal? These kids are younger than 9 years old, not high school kids or even 7th & 8th graders. I would understand if they are 13 to 16 years old, but not 8 & 9 year olds. You can never tell who is going to be good at 8 or 9 years old. So much changes from then to 16 or 17 years old. Heck, a lot changes over the next two years. You need to play kids equally, so they get the crucial game experience that helps EVERYBODY develop. I’ve known kids on the ‘C’ squad in 8th grade that become varsity starters.

“However, as the players mature and develop, playing time is used as a reward for hard work and dedication. If one were to give equal playing time to an individual who shows up late to practice if at all, never works on their game out of the gym, and doesn''t apply themselves while in the gym is unfair to those who work hard and dedicate themselves to the team and getting better.”

If this comment is referring to 7th and 8th graders, I can start to understand. You would want to make rules for kids that do not show up and constantly miss practice. For example, unexcused miss practice, your playing time decreases by 5 minutes.

However, if you’re referring to anything under 7th grade, I don’t agree. Are you telling me that there are kids that want to go to the gym and work their butts off? 99.99% of kids under the age of 13 just wants to play and have fun. Remember, youth sports if for the kids, not some youth coach’s ego about winning games. And half of the time, they have no control over what time they can get to practice. Their parents do. We shouldn’t punish them.

“It serves little purpose to give PT to a player who shows little interest in helping the team achieve it''s goals (which are, by the way, developed by the players themselves in an inner circle meeting).”

If you are having players develop goals and coaching according to those goals, why are you even coaching? Aren’t you the one who is supposed to put things in perspective? Aren’t you supposed to be the mature adult that is doing right things for the kids?

“One team is made up of kids who are the hard chargers. They are in the gym every week, work hard and spend considerable time out of the gym working on their game. We also have a squad of kids who have other activities and interests that preclude them from devoting the time that being on the "A" team requires.”

If this is referring to kids that are around the age of 13 or 14, I could deal with it. I may not fully agree with it, but it’s not a huge deal to me. If you’re referring to kids under the age of 13 to be in the gym more than 2 or 3 times a week (including games), that’s not healthy emotionally or physically. These are kids. They could get injured due to overuse of muscles and they’ll burn emotionally out before they reach the 7th grade. There’s a reason that AAPHER came out with a study that showed over 70% of youth kids quit sports before the age of 13. They need to be enjoying themselves doing other kid activities.

This is not just about preparing them for 7th grade, 8th grade, or even high school varsity, this is about kids learning love physical activity so they can be a healthy adult. If you’re demanding this out of youth kids, they’ll be playing computer games and playstation the rest of their life.

“We also have a team of kids who play for fun and recreation.”

Shouldn’t this be all of the youth players?

“Our top teams play in AAU and our rec team plays in the local Y league. In this way, the kids can play at a level that suits their level on interest and ability and thus their is little or no stress on the players to live up to a demanding coach who wishes the player would put more time or effort into their game or team.”

A demanding coach? If you’re demanding stuff at the youth level, quit now. You’re probably ruining children’s lives. Read our new blog article about developing “passion”.
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/blog/index.php/8-secrets-to-sucess-how-they-relate-to-youth-coaching-parenting/

All of the successful players have a passion for the game. A passion isn’t demanded upon someone. Actually, the complete opposite happens. If the passion is demanded, it ends up being resentment. You think Michael Jordan’s dad was demanding he practice bball in the backyard? No. Jordan’s passion was baseball when he was younger and his passion for basketball developed later. Let the kids choose what they want to work at, not what a coach or parent feels the kid needs to work at.

“I have found that if one were to put a B or C player on an A team, the B or C player never sees the ball because the A team players fear that the lesser player will screw up in a crutial situation and cost them the game. This places less peer pressure on the less motivated player and helps retain team unity.”

I think this would be a perfect time to teach life lessons of teamwork and working with teammates to help develop them as better players. Otherwise, they’ll have an attitude that they are superior to other people and when it comes to be out in the real world, this attitude won’t rub off on other co-workers too well.

If you’re coaching to win the game, you’re not developing youth athletes properly. You may win a game or two now, but you’re hurting some kids in the long run. Youth sports are about EVERYBODY, not just a few of the kids who happen to be the best at age 11 or 12.

Not to mention, have you ever heard of the “self-fulfilling prophecy”. If you tell a kid is he is not as good as others, he’s not going to be. There have been studies of this done in schools where they tell kids they are smart and tell other kids they are not as good. The “proclaimed” smarter ones do better on the test. That’s what happens when you place kids on A, B, & C squads at too young of an age. This would prevent from some players with great potential from ever reaching it. There is a time and place to separate, but I’m highly against it before 7th grade. I’m also on the fence of whether 7th & 8th grade teams should have it.

“Conversly it also affords those players who have decided commit more time and energy to the game and the team to move up to a higher level team.”

This can be decided at the varsity level, not at the youth level.

“This system had worked very well for the 33+ basketball teams I have coached over the years, and, these teams always do well at their level of competition because too much is never asked of a player or team.”

It doesn’t matter if you have won every single game at the youth level for 100 years. This is about developing athletes and people. It’s about what happens, 5, 10, 15, and 25 years down the road to these kids. Who cares if they fared well as a youth player if they end up resenting physical activity, quitting the sport before reaching high school, or developing other emotional damage because of the youth system?

It’s not about making the high school team, college team, or getting the next pro contract.

These kids are not mini-adults. They are kids. Let them enjoy sports and life.

Last yr. I coached a 5th-6th grade girls travel team. We had all 5th graders and were 0-22 although we nearly won the last game. The kids still had fun and we kept it positive. My only regret is that we played a lot of zone in order to stay competitive. We also used a full court zone press. This year we will play man to man 100% of the time. In my opinion it is harder to teach zone because kids don't know who to block out or who to guard.

I'm a board member of a youth league located in South-Central New Mexico. The way we operate our league is that kids are placed by board members on teams according to their grade level. 1st-2nd grade teams are co-ed, as are 3rd-4th grade teams. Both divisions play games with a rim height of 8 1/2 ft and a 28.5 size ball. Games are played with 20 minute halves with subsitutions at every 5 minute interval. Every kid must play at least 10 min in every half and sit out at least 5 min per game. This ensures that every kid gets a chance to play, at the same time enables the better developed kids to sit out. By playing the game in this fashion, it not only puts every kid into a live game situation, but also amplifies what the coach actually teaches the kids at their practices. Even at this young age, there are some kids whom are better developed and can play at higher levels. If that situation arises, we as a League Board will bump that child up to the next level. If a score becomes one-sided, we'll turn the scoreboard off, but still keep time. That way the kids keep playing without being constantly reminded of the score, placing the emphasis on playing the game.

In the 5th-8th grade divisions, kids are separated by gender and grade level and are expected to pursue improvement, because at about this time, Jr. High School basketball is around the corner. Rim height is regulation 10 feet with a the official size ball according to genders. The divisions are 5th-6th grade boys and girls and 7th-8th grade boys and girls. Player drafts and rankings are implemented to ensure equally talented teams. Games are operated in the same fashion as the younger grade levels, but with a tighter emphasis of violations, fouls, etc.

Although there is not a perfect system, this system works well for our community and produces a lot of talented, better developed ballplayers whom play close, competitive games with sound fundamentals and knowledge for the game. Kids of all abilities playing together on teams, physical activity, love of the game, game knowledge, discipline, etc. are all goals which have met and exceeded our expectations as a League Board. Every year this league continues to grow, so we must be doing something right.

Hello,

I coach kids from ages 5 up to 13. I have been fairly successful in keeping kids and parents happy with playing time. It took me a few years to figure it out but this is what I do:

With the 5 to 7 year olds, PT is reletively equal. I even switch up the starters every game.

For 8 to 13 year olds I show balance in this area. I make sure that all players get an ample amount of playing time while at the same time being competitive. The amount I contribute to a few factors: Who is working harder, Team we are playing against (with weaker teams my less talented players play more), etc. If their is a certain skill I want to get out of them I will say, "whoever makes the best passes will get the most PT time!" All of a sudden your ball hogs become passing geniuses.

I keep a calm loose enviroment and allow no negativity among coaches or players. I do enough skill building during practice where all players regardless of talent can compete and have a specialty on the team. Kids on my team want to play for me the following season so I must be doing something right.

I coach 3/4 grade boys. Our league states that we have to play zone in quarters 1,3,4 and MTM in the 2nd. For some of my 3rd graders, this is their first time playing, so it's hard for them to simply understand the game, let alone different defenses. Simplicity is the key here I believe working on their strengths.

We had a situation last week in our game, 5-6 grade cyo, that I help coach. To begin the 2nd half, the other team up by 10, put on a stall offense, 3 kids just over half court. Now we play on an old gym, the same dimensions an nba. Our league is supposed to be a fun league but competative. Well I told the coach to stay back in our zone defense. But kids being kids they went out and twice the other team scored lay-ups on us. Our kids did that because the fans starting freaking out. I was prepared to stay in a zone defense for 2 quarters if we had to. You just don't do that, in my opinion. Am I wrong?

Well, I can understand both perspectives, John. Your perspective is why the heck is running a stall offense? This is youth basketball!

The other coach's perspective is why the heck are they running a zone defense at the youth level? So, he thought I'll bring them out of the zone since I have the lead.

Personally, I may have done the same thing, because I don't like to see zone defenses at the youth level. It's a flaw in the youth basketball system that allows teams to take advantage of players being slower, weaker, and less-skilled. Not to mention, their cognitive processing speeds are slower meaning they can not react as quickly to situations as players that are older.

For baseball, it would be like allowing players to take leads and steal bases whenever they want in 3rd & 4th grade.

I could go on and on why I think youth leagues should BAN zone defenses, but that is another discussion that we've written about on other articles on the website:

http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/defense/age.html

http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/blog/index.php/what-is-the-right-age-to-focus-on-wins-and-losses-and-start-playing-zone/

http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/blog/index.php/for-the-frustrated-coaches-that-turn-to-zone-defense/

I hope that helps you understand the other coach's perspective a little bit better.

I also forgot to add that you should focus on, man to man defense, fundamentals, and offensive concepts to better the players in LONG-TERM. You may get a few extra wins at the youth level by playing zones, but you'll have more success in the future by focusing on the other things.

Hi Joe
I coach in a 3,4,5 grade house league. Our first teams usually consist of 5th and 4th graders while second is 3rd and some 4th. Each group plays every other quarter.It seems with this setup there is little to no complaint about playing time.
We have the rule for second team play that defense stays inside 3-point arc. However, it seems that this tends to create a wall inside the arc and takes away from any real man to man play. We try to control the chaos with this rule but do you think it takes away from the kids learning the real skills of basketball. They themselves seem frustrated with the constant reminder of "stay behind the line" like they are being restrained from playing the game. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Daren

Good question, Daren. First of all, congrats! it sounds like your youth basketball league has better rules for the development of players than 99.9% of them out there.

I would also prefer that kids of this age play 3 on 3 half court. They get more touches and there is more space to process things and learn the game. That's another topic, though. You can read more on the topic at this link: http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/blog/index.php/could-3-on-3-basketball-be-the-best-for-youth-players/

I like to set the 3-point arc rule so that kids can get comfortable with the ball and experience success. If a defensive player (or players) is smothering them, they have trouble developing ball skills (dribbling, ball handling, passing) in a game-like environment. This is crucial for the long-term development for the players. If you have not already, I would highly enforce a “No double teaming rule” and make sure that the kids are still guarding their man. It’s imperative that the referees enforce this.

As for real basketball skills, they don’t have the skills, strength, and mental-processing capabilities to play the same game at the NBA level, yet even the high school level. We need to progress them to that point which will take many years. Just like you would progress a child learning from learning math to calculus. If you allow extended defenses, pressing, etc at this age level, it looks like a group of 10 wild cats in a 4x4 ft room trying to play with one stuffed animal laced with catnip. There is not a whole lot of basketball development.

It’s the same thought process behind the progressions for youth baseball and youth soccer. Could you imagine 8 year olds playing the major league game? Stealing, running 90 foot base paths, and pitching from major-league distance mound. For some reason in basketball, we feel the need to have players shoot at 10 foot hoops, press, and play zones like the pros. In most leagues, we don’t have that progression that helps them.

I got this quote from Bob Bigelow who is a former NBA player and current youth sports expert, “The #1 rule in youth sports is you adapt the game to the kids, not the kids to the game.”

As for the frustration, I saw the same thing in the leagues I’ve worked. They also get frustrated that they can’t shoot the ball every time. :)

Hi Joe,

I must admit, I am now an addict to this site!!

We have just started a new junior basketball in Australia, and I was getting fed up with Clubs designing junior teams to player skills, looking to win as many Grand Finals as possible. We are talking about our domestic league competition, which I believe should be around as many kids just playing basketball, not winning at all costs.

We even hav clubs actively paoching players to go to their club based on their skill levels.

We have set our club completely differently, and we gaurantee equal court time for all players (as long as they attend training that week prior).

As a coach, I have always found that by using a equal playing time sheet, it has minimised any issues for kids to be worrying about playing time, I don''t need to select who is a stronger player or not, and kids can just get on the court and have fun.

I understand the demtoviating factors here also, and I am keen to ask, whether or not the tools i apply would be appropriate.

Our early team meetings are always based on wha the players expect out of each season, of which they will nominate:
1. they choose their attitude, and it must always be positive towards each other
2. No negative talk to any player
3. Encourage, encourage and some more encouragement
4. Effort is always required, regardless of skill, parents and volunteers their time, and effort is the only expectation.

These are rules that my players have created, and they have also developed suitable consequences to any rule that is not adhered to. Parents are invited to view the interraction, and support where required.

We are based on fun for the kids, and focus on building team structures versus individual performance.

Would you have any further suggestions to this at all?

Kind Regards

Daniel

Kudos to you, Daniel. It sounds like you're off to a great start. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head to add. I guess most of my thoughts are on this site.

Thank you for the kind words as well.

I coach a 11u boys elite aau team, our season is about to begin. I been thinking on how to keep this season "FUN" and be a competive team without getting caught up in the win's and loses ? AAU basketball can be a monster, and with some coach's winning is life and death!! So I know everybody loves to win and I m a competive person when it comes to basketball butt I want to keep in mind the development of the kids as my main GOAL , and also be competive and make it FUN all season long win or lose.