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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2014, 12:19 

Posts: 41
Excellent thread. My team (Rising 8th grade boys) uses a 4 out, 1 in Motion Offense, but in pieces as I have found trying to implement a full M.O. enables a level of decision-making they are not quite ready for given their experience and basketball IQs. Too many options creates "paralysis by analysis". Ball and players both end up being frozen in place as a result.

So using the Kelbick M.O. book, a lot of what I have learned on this site from others, and trial and error from actual play, we split the M.O. into 4 separate sets that the boys can understand and implement fairly well. This kind of tracks what Joe referred to in one of his earlier posts. They go by different names (I'll call them Set 1,2, 3, 4 here) In all the sets the post stays in the paint and moves around the 4 corners of the box tracking movement of the ball

Set 1 -- Pass, Basket Cut & Replace.
Set 2 -- Pass & Pick Away & Replace
Set 3 -- Pass, Follow & Pick On The Ball
Set 4 -- Dribble At Hand-offs & Replace/Drive

A couple of wrinkles. I try to have the perimeter players when they cut to use the post as a screen. When they pass into the post, I tell them to read the defense and the post in terms of cutting, picking away, or staying in position, especially if their defender doubles down on the post. The players have the freedom to break off from the sets to go 1 on 1 if there is an opening or they feel they can beat their defender but the ball can't stick for more than 3 seconds in one player's hands.

One issue I do have is that initiation of the offense is driven by that first pass and if the defense is playing up and denying aggressively we can have trouble getting into the set even if the guys v-cut. In those case we'll use Set 4 and get movement going with the hand-offs.

This year I want to work on combining the four sets into one and teach the kids how to read the defense in terms of deciding whether to basket cut, pick, handoff, etc. If we can get to that point I think we will be about 80 percent there in terms of having a complete Motion Offense in place.

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2014, 12:29 
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This is the great idea about the game... you can do all kinds of things as loing as it works for you. When I got to the high school level I ran the varsity coaches block and roll offense.... when I became the sophomore coach I added the Flex a little bit.... ( didn't want him getting mad at me lOL ) then I added the secondary break which gave us a lot of options.

When I became the head varsity coach, I kept some of his old stuff and my flex... then added 3 out 2 in motion .... several years later it was rare IF we had a big man... so we went to the 5 out Princetion style offense .... made it simple at first and as we ran it more, we added things.... back screens, something we called COUNTER where we got a bunch of back door moves.

It all depends on your talent... and like Joe, ew beat several teams that we had no business beating because of this... we made them play our style and tempo. We taught them how to play the game, not robot ball.

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2014, 13:14 

Posts: 18
Well if you in M.O. introduce or drill New actions off-ball players can use, ONE AT A TIME, in a progression, when players are ready for it...that's probably the best course of action by the Coach. And you don't even HAVEto drill ALL the possible actions players w/o the ball can do.

Similar to the Decision Box in R&R in theory there are a bunch of decisions you are free to make, but they are introduced a layer at a time in a progression. If you're just starting implementing the R&R With layer 1: pass & cut the only thing you can do after cutting is fill out to an empty spot behind the perimeter. If you as a Coach decide to start drilling Layer 2: Post Pass & Cut, then posting up is the second thing you can when you're in the decision box. There are plenty of layers in the R&R and plenty of decisions that can be drilled one at a time when getting, but as a Coach you don't have to install everything. Put in the layers the team NEEDS.

The R&R has a model or a blueprint which shows you all the layers of the offense and in what order which is Natural to introduce them (but the order is somewhat flexible though). I have not seen anything similar in Motion Offense, and I have not seen any type of model for M.O. that shows which actions players without the ball can take and in what order they are to be introduced.

Every layer of the R&R sends someone to the goal, which I like, it puts a lot of pressure on the rim and the defense. And I think I understand the reason for the rules of Layers 1, 2, 3, that cutting is not an option, it's something YOU must do when you (Layer 1) pass....because the faster players get to the lane/the decision Box, the faster they can make Choices that effects the NeXT scoring opportunity: filling out, posting, setting or using pretty much any type of screen.

oh by the way, backscreens can be set on any perimeter player in the R&R - wings, top and corners, even the high post. But to make a backscreen you must be in the Paint/decision Box right? R&R also has the ball screen, it can be initiated by a reverse dribble by the ballhandler or any other way that Coach wants, and it can be set by the player Coach wants too.

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2014, 14:23 
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Location: Winter Garden, FL (Orlando suburb)
Coach MT, will you coach my kids? That structure sounds perfect. Skill development, structured play, and unstructured play. Skill development and unstructured play (or free play) tend to be neglected.

Coach Rob, I definitely agree with you. The devil is in the details. IF the kids set horrible screens, don't attack the screens, and make horrible screens, it doesn't matter what you do. Also if you can get a bunch of good players, it doesn't matter what you do, you'll probably win a lot of games.

Coach O, we actually do something very similar to you. We're creating a DVD that follows a similar structure. We thought youth coaches needed more guidance on specific details, so we're trying to give it to them.

Coach Sar, I've seen film. You just grinded away at them until they broke down. Good stuff. :)

Coach larschristianalm, thanks for the clarification. I agree. The RR guys did a great job of putting together a product that is easier to follow with the layered progression. I hope other people emulate it.

Almost every great offense coach I know does something similar. Unfortunately, nobody was smart enough to put in a DVD package. Duke Mullis did a pretty good job with the 5-out.

Also, I believe the RR is just a motion offense with their own set of rules. Depending on the coach and the rules determines the amount of freedom given in the motion offense. Some prefer to keep it very open and free form. Some prefer to have a few more rules with more structure. Neither is wrong or right.

Joe Haefner

PostPosted: 17 Jul 2014, 17:08 
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Coach Sar, I've seen film. You just grinded away at them until they broke down. Good stuff. :)

Thanks Joe..... but as you saw our talent level was no where like the teams we played.... that kid was almost 7 feet tall, no way I was going to let him sit in the lane...... we did have some good shooters and our kids loved to play D!!

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