All times are UTC - 6 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2016, 10:56 

Posts: 5
I have a 5th grade girls team that is at the C level. I have two pretty good PG's and a couple of shooters but no one can really score much outside the paint. I also have three girls that have never played BB before three weeks ago. I'm trying the 5 out but the lack of structure despite lots of reps and a couple of easy rules makes us looked confused during games. Teams with good help defense kill us on the dribble drives and the give and goes. Also at this level there is tremendous pressure on the ball making passing from both wings difficult as #1 basket cuts. Because these girls are limited in skill I was debating going to a more structured 1 out 4 in with a pattern of cuts and screens. This team is fast and small and we seem to have the best games when we run in transition for easy lay ups that we make about 60% of the time.

I have researched this site and bought some of the videos trying to find something that works for these girls but their lack of size and skill has me perplexed on what to run.

BTW, great site, very helpful for me.


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 09:16 
Site Admin
User avatar

Posts: 1280
Coach -

What you're experiencing is normal. Players look ok in practice and then look confused in games. Totally normal. It will get better with time, experience, and perseverance.

If you choose a pattern offense, you will need to spend tons of time practicing the pattern. Kids will still screw it up when you get in games.

At this level, you have a choice...

A) Realize that no matter what offense you run, you're team will struggle until their skills and decision making improves.

B) Choose to run an offense where the ball is in your best players hands most of the time. Only this type of offense will give you short term success. However common sense tells you that only a few players on the team develop... the rest get more and more behind.

I always choose option A but that is a decision you have to make as a coach.

We run 5 out motion with lots of success against top teams in the state (including the clubs). If you choose option A, and a 5 out offense, here are a few things that will help. Just keep in mind it takes time and again players need to develop skill and team offense fundamentals... which is a long term thing.

- When players are one pass away, they need to get open immediately. We use away screens but at this age just using only cuts is a good idea. We teach:
a) if denied, back door cut
b) if defense sags, straight fill
c) if defense is trailing or even, face cut (this is great option but players have to be trained to look for it)
d) if defense is in "no mans land" (they are not denying but not rally sagging either) then pop out to get a good angle to catch the ball

We use this drill to train. Now players will make the wrong reads a lot. That is ok. You keep working on that. However the #1 thing is to just make a decisive decision. Because any decision is much better than no decision. Standing is the only thing we do not want.
https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/play.asp?id=437

- You need ball reversal to loosen up the help defense and create gaps. When ever players catch near the top, have them look to reverse the ball. Our offense looks the best when we have lots of ball movement.

If you need more help, just let us know. Have lots of experience running 5 out and if done right it's very effective.

_________________
Jeff Haefner
http://www.BreakthroughBasketball.com


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 09:49 

Posts: 5
Jeff, thanks for the quick reply. I typed the 4 out 1 in wrong, sorry for the confusion. I think I am going to stay with the 5 out and work on simple rules and also 1 on 1 drills. We were so spread out at the last game that I think several of our players were isolated 1 on 1 and can beat the defense off the dribble because they are playing such deny defense.

I also think a pass and screen away rule will work getting the girls open for looks inside the paint and once they get that I can instill another rule. Let me know if I am off base on this.

On a side note I read your blog article on the prevalence of the point guard ball screen at this level and I must have seen it 20x this weekend. It did work for them several times but eventually failed and led to a turnover more than it was successful.


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2016, 14:37 
Site Admin
User avatar

Posts: 1280
Good point on the 1v1. I was going to mention that and forgot. We teach our players...

- if the defense is loaded up and in good help position, reverse the ball.
- if the defense is out of position and you have 1v1 drive for a lay up, take it!

You are right. I remember the last couple years in 4th and 5th, we saw a lot of players right on their player like glue. When they are out of position like this, the correct read is to attack the defense 1v1. We just took what they gave. Now the better teams (and pretty much all the teams this year) are in good help position, so we usually need to move the ball before driving.

Regarding screen away. It seems simple and it is. But getting kids to do it in a game is a challenge. Ball screens are very easy because it's simple to figure out who to screen (the defender is right there on the ball). If I were you, I'd skip away screens. Implement that at beginning of season next year. I think you'll find you spend too much time trying to get kids to do it. Out of all the actions we teach, it is the hardest to get players to actually do in games and also do it correctly. The time investment is fairly big, when compared to things like cutting, ball screens, and posting up. But the return is very big if eventually you do get it. Nothing wrong with practicing a little bit. But I would not bank on using it.

Good luck!

_________________
Jeff Haefner
http://www.BreakthroughBasketball.com


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 17:02 

Posts: 5
Ok, so it's now been a few months since I have posted to this subject. My team is actually getting worse and we cannot score at all. The girls seem to be catching and dribbling right away. They dribble into help defense or they get stuck in the corner at the baseline. When they are over dribbling everyone else is either just standing around watching or they run to the dribbler clogging everything up. I was thinking of telling them if they catch a pass on the outside they should look to pass first and if they can drive 1 on 1 then they should rip through and try it.

If they are inside they can look at the basket for a shot or kick it back out.If they get trapped they can dribble back out to the outside and look for someone to pass to.

I do run 3 v 2, 2 v 2 and 3 v 3 with am emphasis on ball movement but then during a game it's a dribble fest. Any help on this would be appreciated.


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 21:42 

Posts: 26
No dribble scrimmaging will help. It forces movement off the ball and forces kids to pivot effectively.

Also, I agree with Jeff, incorporating screens will be difficult at this time. I also don't think you need it yet. The foundation of the offense is the movement. Screening without movement isn't going to yield fruit (or buckets). I would spend a great deal of time working on basket cuts out of the 5 out set. It requires consistent repetition, but it will pay dividends in the long run. That movement also sets the stage for so many other good things.

Best of luck to you.


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 11:09 

Posts: 1
I agree with the no dribble scrimmage but we limit it quite a bit more. The easiest way for it to be fun and start out is not using the basket, just full court.

We play a version of ultimate Frisbee (no dribble, must jump stop on catch, ball can't touch the ground EXCEPT for a true bounce pass). Team scores 1 point by crossing end line. As they get more advanced we play to score and can add x number of dribbles if you feel it helps your style. I like to reward layups and challenge the pace so I give 3 points for a layup.

It has worked best for us (8th and 9th grade girls) to beat the press and break those who catch and immediately dribble without knowing their options.

The idea is extremely flexible as you can add whatever you need. We work on a full court man D and a zone D (2-2-1, etc) for the Defense as we often face a press or some form of trap.

I keep a whistle and point direction for turnovers (travel, errand pass, any other rule violation you implement). Very Fast paced, great conditioning hidden in the drill too, kids love the game. We play to x number of points or 5 minutes and they are always tired.


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 11:18 

Posts: 5
Eric Thompson wrote:
I agree with the no dribble scrimmage but we limit it quite a bit more. The easiest way for it to be fun and start out is not using the basket, just full court.

We play a version of ultimate Frisbee (no dribble, must jump stop on catch, ball can't touch the ground EXCEPT for a true bounce pass). Team scores 1 point by crossing end line. As they get more advanced we play to score and can add x number of dribbles if you feel it helps your style. I like to reward layups and challenge the pace so I give 3 points for a layup.

It has worked best for us (8th and 9th grade girls) to beat the press and break those who catch and immediately dribble without knowing their options.

The idea is extremely flexible as you can add whatever you need. We work on a full court man D and a zone D (2-2-1, etc) for the Defense as we often face a press or some form of trap.

I keep a whistle and point direction for turnovers (travel, errand pass, any other rule violation you implement). Very Fast paced, great conditioning hidden in the drill too, kids love the game. We play to x number of points or 5 minutes and they are always tired.


What a great concept! I think we will do this at our next practice. They respond so much better to games than just drills.


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 12:36 
Site Admin
User avatar

Posts: 1280
When it comes to making those decisions to avoid over dribbling, etc... where what we teach our kids:

- If you are open and in range, shoot (duh). If there's not help and a driving lane, attack for a lay up. If you are not open and defense is in position (on ball side), then pass (move the ball!). I want players making this decision immediately. Easier said than done and requires time and practice. But that's the decision making we preach.

We do a lot of teaching when players dribble into traffic. We refer back to those basic guidelines and ask "what would have been a better decision on the catch?". Our 6th graders understand it and slowly get better each week.

- On offense, keep it very simple. We want spacing and ball movement until you get a good shot. It is that simple. It sounds like you have lots of spacing issues.

Try "dribble at drill" so players start moving to keep space when the ball is dribbled:
https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/play.asp?id=7699

Are you teaching players to replace after cuts and dribbles? That is part of spacing. Players should move to stay about 15 feet apart and give the ball handler good passing options. Spacing is something you have to emphasize constantly.

Are you practicing retreat dribble? When players dribble baseline and get cut off they should retreat dribble out and then look to reverse or dribble to middle. Same goes when getting double teamed.

To get ball movement and to disrupt the defense, are you making sure players are immediately getting open when one pass away? We constantly emphasize immediate (NO PAUSING) to get open when one pass away. We also constantly emphasize, when you catch the ball anywhere near the top (slots, top of key, etc)... look to reverse the ball (pass opposite) right away.

For us, by emphasizing spacing, reversing when catching at top, and getting open when one pass away immediately... it makes a huge difference in our motion offense!! Night and day difference.

Those are just a few thoughts that come to mind as I read your post. Hopefully some of it is helpful.

_________________
Jeff Haefner
http://www.BreakthroughBasketball.com


 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2017, 06:36 

Posts: 5
Thanks for responding Jeff. BTW I did the passing/ultimate frisbee drill at the last practice and it went really well. What was nice is it took away the pressure of collapsing at the basket for the shot and just focused on getting open in the open court. Good learning moment.


 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: