I'm looking for some discussion and opinion on 4out vs 5 out pass and cut based motion offense.

I like to teach pass and cut and attack dribble as my main two layers. I think the 5out gives a little better spacing when it comes to pass and cut and really keeps the lane free of clutter. But I've also found that our girls tend to get a little bunched up on the perimeter.

4out seems to have given us more room to operate on the perimeter. I'm not sure how the post impacts our passing and cutting. As far as teaching, I feel more comfortable teaching the perimeter movements off dribble drive when it comes to 4out instead of 5out. Our girls seemed to be better spaced and better available for a pitchout when the drive got stopped.

I'm thinking to start with 4out, with the post just staying on one side for the possession. We'll focus on that set and run our breakout drills accordingly. At some point I will show them 5out. Most of them already know it, so it shouldn't be an issue.

What are your thoughts and opinions?

What age is this?

I would just give it a try and see how it goes. I have done 2 out, 3 out, 4 out, and 5 out. Whatever you run, it's all about spacing and having skilled players.

Just make sure your post and perimeter players keep good spacing as the ball is passed and dribbled. You could have your post always stay weakside ready for a quick reversal and feed -- and waiting for rebounding position. Then if don't get it in a 2 count, flash back to weakside opening up the lanes for cutters and drivers.

To me, they all work. Just a matter of preference. Some might say it depends on personnel, and I would agree to an extent. For example, if you have a couple bigs you don't want catching on the perimeter, some might say 5 out is a bad idea. But as long as you define roles, you can usually make it work. As an example, your bigs always back cut immediately and then stop in the post for a 2 count (don't pass to them on perimeter).

With the 4 out, you can pass and cut, pass and screen away, cut only, screen only, use flare screens, etc. It all works as long as your players keep good spacing.

In most seasons I will run both 5 out and 4 out with out high school team.. sometimes changing in the same possession. Sometimes changing to all 5 out in the 4th quarter, etc. They work seamlessly.

With my youth team I have moved away from "sets" and designating how many are out. I just make sure they keep spacing and get open. And I try to stay out of their way and not limit their creativity by giving them constraints of "4 out" etc. So far it seems to be working really well. We'll see how it goes as I continue the experiment. Unlike high school, our youth team is an empty slate and they seem to do pretty well when I just get out of their way and eliminate all structure and just emphasize spacing and getting open. I even try to avoid telling them how to get open, just figure it out. Sometimes they teach me because they are more creative than I am as an adult.

As a varsity coach we used several types of motion, just like Jeff. I ended up deciding on using the 5 out / Open Post. We really didn't have any bigs so this was best for us.

As for getting "bunched up", I think that can happen with any set at any level. Our simple rule was to keep the floor balanced and IF you found yourself to close to another player or players,...... find the open spot on the floor and go to it. That happened to us several times and I would see our players adjust the spacing.

We spent a lot of time teaching fundamentals and when you are running a free lance type of motion, you have to get out of their way and just let them play. The most you would hear me say would be, " Balance the floor "

5th grade girls.

The common things you hear me shouting are "balance the floor", "spacing" and "cut" LOL

Practice starts next week. Can't wait!

It never changes does it? LOL